80% lowers MERGED THREADS - please ask in here, not a new thread

[shaocaholica]

And, the DOJ withdrew their regulations today

What? Link?

[Nor*Cal]

What? Link?

https://www.oal.ca.gov/files/2017/02/Recent-Actions-by-OAL-on-Proposed-Regulations-0210-Rev.pdf#page=34

[pacrimguru]

Yes, it is confusing and it's because there are conflicting clauses in the CCR's vs the actual passed law.

The BBAW regs do state that the 80% needs a DOJ-assigned S/N if it is going to be registered as RAW. This procedure will apparently not be in place until 2018, so yes, we are in limbo as far as the actual wording of the law vs the DOJ underground regulations and will be unable to RAW any 80% build.

For #4, if you are referring to a 2017-mag-locked build, that is not impacted by the RAW CCR's and is subject only to the "ghost gun" laws in 2018 (until they ban 2017-compliant builds too)

Thanks for your response!

[Maximus924]

This thread is great. I did have a question to add.... has anyone here volreg'd a ar pistol after 1/1? I couldn't get my engraving done until now, but will be submitting with armaglocks. Wondering if anyone else has done this yet?

[shaocaholica]

This thread is great. I did have a question to add.... has anyone here volreg'd a ar pistol after 1/1? I couldn't get my engraving done until now, but will be submitting with armaglocks. Wondering if anyone else has done this yet?

If the pistol was completed before 1/1 but the engraving was done after 1/1, you can submit declaring you acquired the pistol before 1/1. There is a field for the acquisition date.

"Date Acquired"

[Maximus924]

If the pistol was completed before 1/1 but the engraving was done after 1/1, you can submit declaring you acquired the pistol before 1/1. There is a field for the acquisition date.

"Date Acquired"

I am aware of the "Date Acquired" box.

Just wondering about the physical presence of an ARMaglock in the photograph.

I suppose it was legal in 2016 so they should allow the same grace period, even if its deemed non-compliant for 2017 regulations....

[edwardm]

I agree with you and it's why I did not voluntarily reg my 2013 AR Pistol.

And you cannot convert a semi-auto to SSE2. That's part of the law, it could never have been a semi-auto to qualify as a single shot under the revised law.

And, the DOJ withdrew their regulations today so the wait for being able to request a serial number continues.

No one (not me at least) was talking about taking a semi and making it into an SSE2. It's a technicality, but the AR pistol started life as a single-shot, dimensionally-compliant pistol in late 2013. It was later converted to a non-AW/compliant BB-equipped AR pistol in 2014.

In 2015 SSE v2.0 went into effect. The law is somewhat clear about not being able to take something originally semiauto and make is single shot to get around the roster.

It's another question about whether you can go SS->SEMI->SS, I think, if the pistol started life pre-1/1/2015 AND that life started as a SS under SSE v1.0. CalDOJ has no way to comprehend that at the VolReg level, unless you type it in. But that doesn't guarantee the human on the other end will grok the point.

You can submit a Volreg now - that capability has been there for a long time (Just did one for a 10/22 pattern 80% rifle). The issue is more about "What I did pre-1/1/15 was legal, but do you understand that, CalDOJ?"

But, SSE/Roster violations of this type are misdemeanors Perjury is a felony, if memory serves. I'm thinking it's better to say "It's semiauto - here's my #. Gimme me reg." There's lots of people in CA in this exact boat right now.

And yes, I saw the note about the BB/AW regs being pulled. In some ways, those regs were too generous (no details here to give them ideas), and I think someone caught on. I expect the "no modification" rule to come back. I expect some of the other 'status' exceptions to vanish.

[somiskid]

Can you please clear up my 80% question

If my 80% lower built rifle is compliant do I need to register it under the new laws?

[Maximus924]

If my 80% lower built rifle is compliant do I need to register it under the new laws?

"compliant" doesn't help. What do you mean by compliant? Featureless? or engraved?


this is what the AB857 says about firearms that are not assigned a serial


29181. Section 29180 does not apply to or affect any of the following:

(a) A firearm that has a serial number assigned to it pursuant to either Section 23910 or pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Part 1 of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(b) A firearm made or assembled prior to December 16, 1968, that is not a handgun.
(c) A firearm which was entered into the centralized registry set forth in Section 11106 prior to July 1, 2018, as being owned by a specific individual or entity if that firearm has assigned to it a distinguishing number or mark of identification to that firearm by virtue of the department accepting entry of that firearm into the centralized registry.
(d) A firearm that has a serial number assigned to it pursuant to Chapter 53 of Title 26 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(e) A firearm that is a curio or relic, or an antique firearm, as those terms are defined in Section 479.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.

I dont think anyone knows for sure what is required, but some say just make sure its engraved, others say engrve and VolReg to have it in the centralized database...

I submitted my 80%'s per section C to the registry, waiting to hear back. I would rather submit it an not need to, than be forced to use a number assigned by them...

[shaocaholica]

So I thought I read up on how to ~manufacture~ a CA compliant AR pistol prior to 1/1/2017. Is there specific text that says these pistols cannot be converted to semi? I'm thinking something in 2015 SSE changes?

Since its 100% made by the builder (me), its original configuration is single shot break open and thus would not fall into any definition of a converted semi.

[Maximus924]

For the record my name is engraved on the lowers, all fully built into functioning firearms, I had 3x pictures including full left, full right, then zoom in on the engraving for all numbers to be visible.

2 out of 3 SN ended in a number.

The pistol was a single shot, I believe there was a 4x pic to show the SS sled in there.

All 3 rejected.

any news on your rejects? explanation why? It seems like alot of people are stating theirs were approved. Did you submit as single shot? or semi? Did you include your HSC number?

[Maximus924]

Since this is a rifle build, my question is why did you go through the cost & effort of milling out an 80 only to register it?

if by "Register" you mean to comply with new "Ghost Gun" laws, the answer for me is when I built my "Ghost Guns" there were no laws in place to require identification. Now that there are, I have no problem reporting to the DOJ what I own or what I made.

Exactly.

People can do what they want, but doing an 80% and then registering defeats the entire purpose of doing an 80% in the first place.

If your referring to AW laws, you have to remember that some people bought their 80% lowers 4+ years ago, they (like me) built them for fun. these new laws didnt exist. now that they do, the same decision needs to be made on them that needs to be made on any firearm they own that falls into new legislation. I am only registering a firearm if there is no way to fix the mag or make it featureless (I have some pistols that fall into this catagory...) but others are just forced to make a choice on a law that was not a law when they built out their hobby/project sporting rifles or pistols.....

I think that once you receive a number it will be your number and will not be able to be transferred without going through an FFL. You would not want someone building a gun that will be traced back to you.

If your talking about a RAW number, its illegal to sell or transfer a RAW in California, so that wont happen.

if your talking about a state assigned serial for Jul 2018 ghost gun laws, from what I read it wont be legal to transfer those either....

scenario that it MIGHT be a transfer option: RAW turned featureless? but RAW laws can't be finalized yet so we have no idea what to expect.......

[relatively-anonymous]

Brought this up in other threads but I figured it belongs here instead: I've been reading the roster law and I don't believe a home-built handgun (not for sale or transfer - just for personal use) is subject to the roster law or even the pre-requirement for single shot or bolt action. It all comes down to the definition of "manufacturer"

The homemade/serialization law, Chapter 3 29180(a) defines manufacture as "assembly" but only "for the purposes of this chapterengaged in the business of manufacturing firearms or ammunition for purposes of sale or distribution. This makes me believe home builders are fine as long as they don't sell them or as long as the pistols do not have features banned by other laws (like illegal calibers, fully automatic modes, or grenade launchers)

It cannot be argued that "manufacturer" is a common-sense definition including home building because the law defined it in three different places. In two of those places (the roster law) it stated "for sale or distribution." The only place where it is covers assembly for home use is in the new serial number law, not in the roster requirements law.

[moonshade0227]

manufacturing in common sense means for business. Are there anyone successfully volregged a home made semi? So far I haven't find any post yet. All homemade pistol posts I have seen are for single shot.

[bigbully]

manufacturing in common sense means for business. Are there anyone successfully volregged a home made semi? So far I haven't find any post yet. All homemade pistol posts I have seen are for single shot.

Homemade pistols have been denied registration as semi in the past, sometimes up to a year later according to one account on Calguns. Not sure if anyone has tried recently though.