80% lowers MERGED THREADS - please ask in here, not a new thread

[Nor*Cal]

As discussed in another thread (the AB-857 one I think), the Michel LLP legal seminar stated that ANY 80% firearm will need a DOJ-assigned number, not just those wanting to register as an AW. They did not believe that anyone could assign their own numbers. DOJ rejected a number of non-DOJ serial VolReg attempts recently, but it is not clear to me this Michel guidance is true or false. Dust needs to settle.

No they did not say that all 80% need a DOJ assigned serial number in 2017. Only those that will be registered as an assault weapon.

They did however say that AB-857 kicks in on July 1st 2018 and at that point all home builds will need a DOJ assigned serial numbers.

Here's a link to "AB-857 Firearms: identifying information"

[edwardm]

I can speak from personal experience that is not true.

I have just recently, I mean like early December recently, voluntarily registered four 80% AR's. All with my own markings and serial numbers, and none meet the BATFE's "regulations" in terms of markings.

In other words, they don't all have my name and stuff on them. One does, but others have goofy stuff. What does meet the requirement is the depth and the serial number.

The DOJ sent me my proof of registration back in less than a few weeks. They listed the make as "U S" (unapproved subject, more recently listed as "FMBUS" in the AW regs) and the model was listed (in all cases) as what I put down for the model, and the serial numbers were listed as the serial numbers I applied. Two of these firearms were complete and two were stripped lowers (milled out of course).

So, while they may be correct in that come 2018 you need a DOJ approved serial number, they are wrong in that you cannot (prior to 2018) voluntarily register your 80% lowers with your own serial numbers and if you do that, your firearm will be "on the centralized list" and you will not at any point later be required to get a DOJ serial number for your 80%. Per the law itself.

That said, as Quiet explained above; There is some thought that if you merely serialize your firearm to BATFE standards, you don't even need to be a part of the centralized registry and thus don't need to get a DOJ specified serial number at all and can avoid any type of registration.

What is certain though is if your 80% is registered, either voluntarily or with a DOJ serial number, you won't need to do anything in 2018.

My method of action was simple to avoid the legal limbo of maybe having to get a DOJ serial number. I registered all of my completed 80% lowers using the online CRIS volreg system. 80% lowers that are not milled out are not firearms and thus, don't need anything done to them.

Which of your 80% AR's were pistols, if any? I think that's where people are having problems.

Also I haven't found anyone who has registered (via CRIS or paper form) a pre-2015 80% 1911 in 2015 or 2016 (or 2017).

Lots of people did the "mill the 1911 frame, install SSE compliance parts, shoot it once, revert to typical 1911 configuration" routine before SSE 2.0 kicked in, and it seems DOJ is kicking back, or is likely to kick back, central registry requests based on date of submission, not the claimed date of the build.

The same as above applies for 80% AR pistols - build compliant, shoot once, then revert to typical AR configuration.

Rifles and non-pistol frames I would think go through CRIS/volreg without a hiccup still. Did DOJ demand photoghraphs? It seems they were doing that as recently as early December/late November for AR pistols, in the least.

However, I think AB-857 provides an amnesty of sorts for 80% pistol builds, especially ones made 1/1/2015 and after. But that amnesty won't kick in until the law kicks in.

[Predator]

Some people just have trouble with reading and comprehension.

[familyfarm]

When? Like now or just after 2018? I think they're talking about 2018 and beyond. We're trying to figure out things are they are TODAY. Currently no one can get a DoJ serial and there are lots of completed 80s from last year and this year that are currently in limbo.

What's your source for Volreg rejection? This thread?

Post 221 on this thread from Whiterabbit and the following posts are some of the DOJ Volreg rejection discussions here on CG.

Other members also heard what I heard on the Michel call - That all home-builds might need DOJ numbers. Maybe only those built after the 2018 date and maybe not. It is unclear but I agree that serialization is a 2018 topic and does not affect non-AW rifles today.

[Whiterabbit]

For the record my name is engraved on the lowers, all fully built into functioning firearms, I had 3x pictures including full left, full right, then zoom in on the engraving for all numbers to be visible.

2 out of 3 SN ended in a number.

The pistol was a single shot, I believe there was a 4x pic to show the SS sled in there.

All 3 rejected.

[Whiterabbit]

Also, CRIS won't even let me log in now. My password "expired", to recover I need my userID name (email) and my ID number.

I was never assigned an ID number, so I'm permanently locked out till DOJ tells me my ID number.

[greensoup]

It's just a paperweight with a make/model/serial number/etc. as per BATFE rules. I don't think it's possible to DROS a paperweight since it's not technically a firearm yet.

Sent from somewhere in space and time using Tapatalk

Not if he puts DOJ serial number on it. At least I wouldn't touch it, doj serial number = gun.

[familyfarm]

Also, CRIS won't even let me log in now. My password "expired", to recover I need my userID name (email) and my ID number.

I was never assigned an ID number, so I'm permanently locked out till DOJ tells me my ID number.

Whiterabbit - Try your drivers license as the "ID number"

[Easyrider1269]

OK, so I went ahead and had my 80% lower, 'featured', rifle engraved per the ATF's definition of a serial number. I'm trying to confirm once and for all if I can avoid registration since my lower is marked prior to 7/1/2018. According to 80 percent arms website, once a home built rifle, built BEFORE July 2018, is marked, it is not necessary to let the DOJ know you have the rifle. In other words, I can legally stay off the radar. Is this true?

[Easyrider1269]

Oh, and what do I do with the bullet button? Leave it, take it off or use a BB2.0??

[VaderSpade]

OK, so I went ahead and had my 80% lower, 'featured', rifle engraved per the ATF's definition of a serial number. I'm trying to confirm once and for all if I can avoid registration since my lower is marked prior to 7/1/2018. According to 80 percent arms website, once a home built rifle, built BEFORE July 2018, is marked, it is not necessary to let the DOJ know you have the rifle. In other words, I can legally stay off the radar. Is this true?

'featured' = AW unless you use one of the new mag locks. AWs must be registered.

[Easyrider1269]

Got it. So it is officially confirmed that a mag lock device is acceptable to render the magazine as fixed, hence making the rifle a non AW?

[VaderSpade]

Got it. So it is officially confirmed that a mag lock device is acceptable to render the magazine as fixed, hence making the rifle a non AW?

There is language that says just that in DOJs paperwork. Links have been posted in this thread many times.

NRA & CRPA are trying to change things.

[Whiterabbit]

NRA & CRPA are trying to change things.

Which should be interpreted here as "give money to the NRA and CRPA".

That interpretation is of course just my opinion.

[CandG]

Got it. So it is officially confirmed that a mag lock device is acceptable to render the magazine as fixed, hence making the rifle a non AW?

Depends on the maglock. None are actually verified to be compliant. DFM magazines are probably the safest bet. ARMaglock and BB-2.0 are risky, see below (sorry for the gratuitous reposting of this image on several threads, but this topic keeps popping up and I feel people should be aware of the risks)



It's not a possible violation of the proposed DOJ regs (current or future), it appears that it may be a violation of the PC as it's already published.