MERGED THREADS "Bullet Button Assault Weapon" Regs

[FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!]

I see Fabio's logic and appreciate is input as he seems to provide a very practical devil's advocate approach here. The issue I'm seeing is there has never been anything that said an AW must remain in the configuration it was before it was registered.

If the BB must stay because that's how the rifle existed before registration, wouldn't that logically extend to all the other parts (pistol grip, stock, etc)?

And lastly I still dont see what the charge/punishment is if someone ignores this regulation.. I guess the best explanation Ive seen here is that they can cancel your registration since they own the registration system. And then you'd be in possession of an Unregistered AW..

I guess then people would have to argue under what circumstances can the DOJ cancel a registration. Is that written down anywhere?

Under the interpretation I have been articulating there would be no need to cancel the registration before prosecuting for AW possession.

[Malthusian]

Sorry I never saw this answered, but how do we interpret this PDF floating around? Is it law and regulations come midnight? Or does it need to be vetted and agreed upon in February? When are we registering and when do I need to buy a camera and Internet connection to do so

The website will be up tomorrow

Take a breath and wait for the legal teams to sort things out

Take a photo today, so you have the time stamp on your side

Bottom line you have a month or so to decide what to do

Yes you have to register before the end of next year, but I would not cut it that close

[FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!]

Thanks for this analysis.

Think im done asking questions for now lol. Just trying to understand the logic of the regs.

Same here, I'm done answering questions haha.

[Sousuke]

The website will be up tomorrow

Take a breath and wait for the legal teams to sort things out

Take a photo today, so you have the time stamp on your side

Bottom line you have a month or so to decide what to do

Yes you have to register before the end of next year, but I would not cut it that close

Yeah I wouldn't wait past say June given they can reject photos etc.

[dieselpower]

I love step by step logic trails, its easy for people to follow along.

1- Ca makes AW registration., people register.
2- A court case forces Ca to re-classify AWs by features
3- years later people figure out a way to work around registration using features
4- Ca anti-gun nazi get mad. write new law to reclassify features to include work around devices as AWs
5- Ca DoJ understands that to mean they have another type of AW to register. They write a regulation specific to BB AW registration.
6- If you register under BB-AW registration law, you cant remove the BB because you didnt register it under the original AW registration.

basically we now have a 4 classes of AW in CA starting tomorrow.
1- Cat I = Roberti Roos firearms
2- Cat II = Harrott V. County of Kings named Firearms
3- Cat III = Harrott V. County of Kings by Features SB23
4- Cat IV = SB880 Bullet Button Assault Weapons.
-
Roos

[Sousuke]

I love step by step logic trails, its easy for people to follow along.

1- Ca makes AW registration., people register.
2- A court case forces Ca to re-classify AWs by features
3- years later people figure out a way to work around registration using features
4- Ca anti-gun nazi get mad. write new law to reclassify features to include work around devices as AWs
5- Ca DoJ understands that to mean they have another type of AW to register. They write a regulation specific to BB AW registration.
6- If you register under BB-AW registration law, you cant remove the BB because you didnt register it under the original AW registration.

basically we now have a 4 classes of AW in CA starting tomorrow.
1- Cat I = Roberti Roos firearms
2- Cat II = Harrott V. County of Kings named Firearms
3- Cat III = Harrott V. County of Kings by Features SB23
4- Cat IV = SB880 Bullet Button Assault Weapons.
-
Roos

So why didn't they write a Cat IV into the regulations? Keep in mind you can't really convert to the other categories. Like Say III to I

[AlexDD]

yes it does. when looking for my purchaser copies i came across my seller copies and I have the names of everyone who bought a firearm from me, so they have my information as well.

So now, if one ever sold a rifle through PPT to someone else since 2000, someone else is going to give the name and address of the private party who they purchased the firearm from?

Yes, I realize the info is in the CA DROS database but so much for privacy and consent of the other party (seller) having their information entered into this new AW database!

I aware in some PPT's where one only received their CA DROS info from the FFL but not the seller's or buyer's info. IE the buyer didn't want the seller having their home address.

If you do not have this info, will DOJ fail to register? My assumption is that the State may have the power to deem the application incomplete.

[Rgarbarino]

Over two days I've read all 915 posts...

All I can say is I'm sure glad I'm featureless!

[jcwatchdog]

Laws are required to prohibit. Not required to allow.

You live in the USA. That's how it works here.

That's true, and the whole point. There is no law to prohibit the bullet button from being removed. Just one clown from the doj who wrote something down that sounded good to them.

[TOM_ONE]

Yes it *was* lawfully possessed *prior* to 1/1/2017. And if it's registered post 1/1/2017 it's lawfully possessed then too, regardless of what type of magazine release it has. WHY can it be possessed in a configuration after 2017 that would have been illegal before 2017? Because the law changed in 2017. Simple enough for you?

you have to send photographs of the gun. WITH THE BULLET BUTTON INSTALLED. you can't take it off after it becomes a RAW. since you took photographs of it WITH a BB, you cannot change it after the fact because the gun they approved had a BB on it (and you sent them photographic evidence of such)

[2Aallday]

That's true, and the whole point. There is no law to prohibit the bullet button from being removed. Just one clown from the doj who wrote something down that sounded good to them.

Which has the force of law in under nine hours.

[Fox Mulder]

It boils down to statutory interpretation. Everything hinges on what it means to "lawfully possess that assault weapon prior to January 1, 2017." "Assault weapon" is the collection of parts that meets the statutory definition of assault weapon. If your assault weapon included a bullet button and therefore did not have the capacity to accept a detachable magazine under prior law, you lawfully possessed that assault weapon and may register that assault weapon. If your assault weapon included a standard mag release and therefore did have the capacity to accept a detachable magazine under prior law, you did not lawfully possess that assault weapon and may not register that assault weapon. PC 30680(b), PC 30900(b)(1). Under this statutory framework, registration of an assault weapon that did not have the capacity to accept a detachable magazine under prior law is not registration of an assault weapon that did have the capacity to accept a detachable magazine under prior law. If you are in possession of an assault weapon that had the capacity to accept a detachable magazine under prior law, is unregistered and is not registrable, you are not within the terms of PC 30680, and you are in violation of PC 30605. Again, IMO.

If you posess and register a 2016 BB AW in 2017 that was legally possessed and configured with a bullet button in 2016, and still configured as a 2016 BB AW at the time of registration in 2017, it is a registered AW. If you then replace the bullet button with a standard magazine release, the registration doesn't magically disappear. It is still a registered assault weapon.

Now, you can argue that you have invalidated the registration, by adding a standard mag release, but this is where we are getting into the meat of the issue.

The question is, does the CADOJ have the authority to disallow changing out the mag lock? Does the DOJ have the authority to create a new class of CA Assault weapon, independent of the law which essentially says that the bullet button is now essentially the same thing as a standard mag release in the eyes of the law, as of 1/1/17? Can the CADOJ invalidate an AW registration? By what process? Does adding a standard mag release invalidate an AW registration? By what statute?

[jcwatchdog]

It boils down to statutory interpretation. Everything hinges on what it means to "lawfully possess that assault weapon prior to January 1, 2017." "Assault weapon" is the collection of parts that meets the statutory definition of assault weapon. If your assault weapon included a bullet button and therefore did not have the capacity to accept a detachable magazine under prior law, you lawfully possessed that assault weapon and may register that assault weapon. If your assault weapon included a standard mag release and therefore did have the capacity to accept a detachable magazine under prior law, you did not lawfully possess that assault weapon and may not register that assault weapon. PC 30680(b), PC 30900(b)(1). Under this statutory framework, registration of an assault weapon that did not have the capacity to accept a detachable magazine under prior law is not registration of an assault weapon that did have the capacity to accept a detachable magazine under prior law. If you are in possession of an assault weapon that had the capacity to accept a detachable magazine under prior law, is unregistered and is not registrable, you are not within the terms of PC 30680, and you are in violation of PC 30605. Again, IMO.

As of January 1st, before I register or do anything with that, what am I in possession of if I have a BB ar15? The regulations are only for the registration. I don't want to hear about "you would be in possession of a pre 2016 B.B. Assault weapon. As the law states, not the regs for registrations, what am I possession of? The answer is I'm in possession of an AW with a detachable magazine per the new law.

[dieselpower]

So why didn't they write a Cat IV into the regulations? Keep in mind you can't really convert to the other categories. Like Say III to I

they did, the title of the Regulations is, "Bullet Button Assault Weapons".

[Crazed_SS]

Feel like the DOJ is Darth Vader right now..

CA Gun owners: This isnt part of the deal. You said if we registered these, they'd be AWs!
DOJ: I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it further.