MERGED THREADS "Bullet Button Assault Weapon" Regs

[SMR510]

But it was possessed....

Changing the mag release after registration does not change this, nor has such a change been codified. Otherwise they would have just inserted it into 5477.

It wasn't legally possessed in the configuration you are describing.

[greensoup]

No disagreement but given that I currently possess several BB ARs it seems that each combination of an upper and lower would constitute a separate "uniquely identified firearm" that I could and must register to not violate the law, as long as I possessed that combination this year. Your thoughts.

Does the law regulate repairs to non-serialized parts? Seems like if you broke the hammer you could replace the hammer. If the upper was damaged you could repair the upper. If the barrel was worn you could replace the barrel.

[BAJ475]

Yes there is. Manufacture of an AW.

How so? On 1/1/17 that BB AR becomes an AW as a matter of law. But there is a grandfather provision that prevents prosecution. So, assume that I register to take advantage of the grandfather provision. How would removing the BB from a registered AW turn what is already an AW into an AW?

[Sousuke]

It will be registered as a BB AW. If it doesn't have a BB, it is no longer.

If they go that route they are in trouble as the penal code does not allow for it.

[2Aallday]

It doesn't have the standard mag released until *after* the law changed the definition tomorrow. It WAS lawfully possessed PRIOR to 1/1/2017. We're having some tense trouble here.

If you get in a time machine with your rifle in 2017 and come back to today, when you get out of your time machine, your rifle must not be an AW.

[danez71]

Nah, I am usually just tone deaf...

Fair enough.... same results though.



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The bolded part is the contentious one.

They can limit what can be registered. The law itself does that. The "possession" part is simply not there. The possession in the law applies to "assault weapons" as defined in the AW statutes, i.e., detachable magazine AND features.

An AW registration of a rifle allows that rifle to be an AW. So, as long as the paperwork applies to the rifle it's legal. They would have to claim that the registration *doesn't apply* to the rifle in order to prosecute under AW statutes.

Am I wrong here?

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They would claim that the mag release change creates a different rifle from the AW you registered, thus you are in possession of an "unregistered AW" and some toilet paper with their signature on it.

Right.... sorta.

It would physically be the same receiver S/N but it won't match the pictures/description etc that was sent in.

If it doesn't match, it would be prudent for them to figure out what it is.

Were the S/N altered?
Is it a Destructive Device?
Is it a AOW?

Ohhh... Hey.... it fits the description of an old school AW.

Is that registered?

Nope.

Go to jail.

It seems the regulation is going in that direction. Whether they can or can't, they are doing it.*

This is what I'm saying.

Don't get me wrong... the only one that knows if they can is the judge(s).

But it IS the the direction they're going and at least one lawyer agrees, in essence, that it's a reasonable argument for them to do so.

A right leaning judge will rule in their favor; not ours.


As you also said/asked: "Can we kill it on unfriendly courts?".

That's a tall task achieve given how unfriendly that have already shown to be.



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I've tried for two years to de-register an AW and Harris deliberately dragged it out so I couldn't. Don't think for a minute they will ever delist a RAW and if they do it will take forever. Plan accordingly.

One small tweak and it proof "Once an AW, always an AW". Just like once a pistol go to rifle in CA, its always a rifle.

[kelvin232]

The main thing I am getting from this thread are that people are claiming things that aren't actually in the regulations.

Yup. And most of the unfounded claims are self-shackling from the afraid and overwhelmed

[dieselpower]

How so? On 1/1/17 that BB AR becomes an AW as a matter of law. But there is a grandfather provision that prevents prosecution. So, assume that I register to take advantage of the grandfather provision. How would removing the BB from a registered AW turn what is already an AW into an AW?

because the regulation you use to register the rifle says you cant change the magazine release from the one you registered it with, when you register, you are agreeing to that. by removing the BB you void your registration.

[BAJ475]

Let the BBelievers be the test case since they are so sure. Pull that BB and show the DOJ.

That would be a stupid approach, when a petition for a writ of prohibition could solve the problem without the risk of a criminal conviction.

[kelvin232]

If they go that route they are in trouble as the penal code does not allow for it.

Laws are required to prohibit. Not required to allow.

You live in the USA. That's how it works here.

[Crazed_SS]

I see Fabio's logic and appreciate is input as he seems to provide a very practical devil's advocate approach here. The issue I'm seeing is there has never been anything that said an AW must remain in the configuration it was before it was registered.

If the BB must stay because that's how the rifle existed before registration, wouldn't that logically extend to all the other parts (pistol grip, stock, etc)?

And lastly I still dont see what the charge/punishment is if someone ignores this regulation.. I guess the best explanation Ive seen here is that they can cancel your registration since they own the registration system. And then you'd be in possession of an Unregistered AW..

I guess then people would have to argue under what circumstances can the DOJ cancel a registration. Is that written down anywhere?

[Sousuke]

Laws are required to prohibit. Not required to allow.

You live in the USA. That's how it works here.

This has been discussed ad nauseam. DOJ cannot legislate outside the law written by the legislature.

[dieselpower]

If they go that route they are in trouble as the penal code does not allow for it.

who is in trouble, the DoJ? to push that you need to challenge and over turn the regulations.

[Sousuke]

Is that written down anywhere?

No.

[Crazed_SS]

because the regulation you use to register the rifle says you cant change the magazine release from the one you registered it with, when you register, you are agreeing to that. by removing the BB you void your registration.

Is there some language where we must acknowledge, "this registration is only valid providing that the rifle maintains the release mechanism installed at the time of registration" ??


Guess we'll see......