MERGED THREADS "Bullet Button Assault Weapon" Regs

[2Aallday]

The issue I'm seeing is there is never been anything that said an AW must remain in the configuration it was before it was registered.

Until yesterday. Read the regs. It says you may not change the mag release. Specifically.

If the BB must stay because that's how the rifle existed before registration, wouldnt that logically extend to all the other parts (pistol grip, stock, etc)?

The regs do not say you cannot change these items. Only mag release.

[951temec]

you want to bet? don't be bitter because you were banned as you posted in your other post!

Not a tough guy at all....simply I have enough money to and options to not register Jack! so if i have to convert all my guns into featureless, or even if it comes to permanently welding a magazine! I will do that before i register it!
so don't try to play it off like you know anything about me or what i am going to do

Sure, how much money do you plan on handing me before reg closes?

Mr. Suburban operator

[kelvin232]

This has been discussed ad nauseam. DOJ cannot legislate outside the law written by the legislature.

And I'm disagreeing how? Please re-read.

[Sousuke]

who is in trouble, the DoJ? to push that you need to challenge and over turn the regulations.

I'll wait until next week to find out what the opinion is.

[dieselpower]

I see Fabio's logic and appreciate is input as he seems to provide a very practical devil's advocate approach here. The issue I'm seeing is there is never been anything that said an AW must remain in the configuration it was before it was registered.

If the BB must stay because that's how the rifle existed before registration, wouldnt that logically extend to all the other parts (pistol grip, stock, etc)?

And lastly I still dont see what the charge/punishment is if someone ignores this regulation.. I guess the best explanation Ive seen here is that they can cancel your registration since they own the registration system. And then you'd be in possession of an Unregistered AW..

I guess then people would have to argue under what circumstances can the DOJ cancel a registration. Is that written down anywhere?

it sorta is because it states in the regs you cant change the bb out. that doesnt extend to the other parts because the new regulations are about creating a new class of AW and defining terms never defined before.

all of this is not within their mandate under the law, but they did it.

[FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!]

So your whole argument hinges on the idea that changing out the bullet button for a regular mag release creates an entirely different firearm, regardless of serial number, manufacturer, or other identifying characteristics, and regardless of the fact that those identifying characteristics have been used to register the firearm with the CADOJ as an assault weapon, yes?

It boils down to statutory interpretation. Everything hinges on what it means to "lawfully possess that assault weapon prior to January 1, 2017." "Assault weapon" is the collection of parts that meets the statutory definition of assault weapon. If your assault weapon included a bullet button and therefore did not have the capacity to accept a detachable magazine under prior law, you lawfully possessed that assault weapon and may register that assault weapon. If your assault weapon included a standard mag release and therefore did have the capacity to accept a detachable magazine under prior law, you did not lawfully possess that assault weapon and may not register that assault weapon. PC 30680(b), PC 30900(b)(1). Under this statutory framework, registration of an assault weapon that did not have the capacity to accept a detachable magazine under prior law is not registration of an assault weapon that did have the capacity to accept a detachable magazine under prior law. If you are in possession of an assault weapon that had the capacity to accept a detachable magazine under prior law, is unregistered and is not registrable, you are not within the terms of PC 30680, and you are in violation of PC 30605. Again, IMO.

[s30]

Everyone that says that and joins the fray, doesn't know dick about chess, and loses.

They would be better off sticking to checkers and being a champion.

The "right people" on this forum (well, who USED to be here anyway) who repeatedly botch things up, ignore FGG's free advice, and continue again into new pursuits like retarded bulls in a china-shop - are exactly those that should probably back away from BOTH games.

Agreed.

[dieselpower]

I'll wait until next week to find out what the opinion is.

the opinion is they over stepped their boundaries by a superman hop over a building.

that doesnt get them to change it.

the one thing that is clear is we have 11 months and 30 days to see what unfolds.

[dynastyss]

Sorry I never saw this answered, but how do we interpret this PDF floating around? Is it law and regulations come midnight? Or does it need to be vetted and agreed upon in February? When are we registering and when do I need to buy a camera and Internet connection to do so

[Malthusian]

I see Fabio's logic and appreciate is input as he seems to provide a very practical devil's advocate approach here. The issue I'm seeing is there is never been anything that said an AW must remain in the configuration it was before it was registered.

If the BB must stay because that's how the rifle existed before registration, wouldnt that logically extend to all the other parts (pistol grip, stock, etc)?

And lastly I still dont see what the charge/punishment is if someone ignores this regulation.. I guess the best explanation Ive seen here is that they can cancel your registration since they own the registration system. And then you'd be in possession of an Unregistered AW..

I guess then people would have to argue under what circumstances can the DOJ cancel a registration. Is that written down anywhere?

The CCR specifically states you cannot change the bullet button

The unique description is only for the registration process

Unless stated as "not allowed" you are free to modify or change parts

My .02

YMMV

[Crazed_SS]

Until yesterday. Read the regs. It says you may not change the mag release. Specifically.

I meant nothing in the penal code up to this point says AWs must remain in registered config. Yes.. Clearly it's in the new regs.

This just seems like something that should be in the PC. That's why I was asking how is this to be enforced. What is the charge/punishment. I mean they could have said, "Registered rifles must remain in their original color. Not rattle can paintjobs after registration!"

My question would still be, "under penalty of what?"

[danez71]

because the regulation you use to register the rifle says you cant change the magazine release from the one you registered it with, when you register, you are agreeing to that. by removing the BB you void your registration.

That's as simple as it gets in explaining what will set off the chain of events sending the owner to jail.

When you take off the BB, you void your warranty.

[Crazed_SS]

It boils down to statutory interpretation. Everything hinges on what it means to "lawfully possess that assault weapon prior to January 1, 2017." "Assault weapon" is the collection of parts that meets the statutory definition of assault weapon. If your assault weapon included a bullet button and therefore did not have the capacity to accept a detachable magazine under prior law, you lawfully possessed that assault weapon and may register that assault weapon. If your assault weapon included a standard mag release and therefore did have the capacity to accept a detachable magazine under prior law, you did not lawfully possess that assault weapon and may not register that assault weapon. PC 30680(b), PC 30900(b)(1). Under this statutory framework, registration of an assault weapon that did not have the capacity to accept a detachable magazine under prior law is not registration of an assault weapon that did have the capacity to accept a detachable magazine under prior law. If you are in possession of an assault weapon that had the capacity to accept a detachable magazine under prior law, is unregistered and is not registrable, you are not within the terms of PC 30680, and you are in violation of PC 30605. Again, IMO.

Thanks for this analysis.

Think im done asking questions for now lol. Just trying to understand the logic of the regs.

[jcwatchdog]

It will be registered as a BB AW. If it doesn't have a BB, it is no longer.

Really? Where does it say that? It says you can't remove the bullet button after it's been registered. We all know this is what they said. But them saying something doesn't create law or penalty for breaking the law. And certinaly nothing is said that the registration is invalid if the bullet button is removed.

There is absolutely NOTHING is the regulations released that state what happens when you remove the bullet button on a registered AW. There is nothing in the PC that says anything either.. The way I see it is that they put it in there because there would be enough people to say "the doj said it, and if you cross them, you are breaking the law and will be punished". Completely forgetting that the doj doesn't make the laws or punishments for breaking them.

[2Aallday]

I meant nothing in the penal code up to this point says AWs must remain in registered config. Yes.. Clearly it's in the new regs.

This just seems like something that should be in the PC. That's why I was asking how is this to be enforced. What is the charge/punishment. I mean they could have said, "Registered rifles must remain in their original color. Not rattle can paintjobs after registration!"

My question would still be, "under penalty of what?"

I think it's a reasonable interpretation (unfortunately) that the registering body determines the terms of registration. Otherwise, who?

They even define a method of de-registering.

Edit: I'm guessing the penalty is possession of an unregistered AW...