MERGED THREADS "Bullet Button Assault Weapon" Regs

[2Aallday]

But if you remove a bullet button, where is the provision for the DOJ to revoke your registration and now claim you are in possession of an unregistered Aw?

The rules clearly state that to be registrable, it ultimately must have a BB. Once registered, mag release cannot be changed. I don't like this, but it really isn't difficult to understand.

[Fox Mulder]

Your making this way too complicated

They confiscate your fire arm

They don't need to even charge you with anything

Or

Let somebody else be the test case

We have a year to figure this out

I'm not making it complicated. The mother effing CADOJ is making it complicated.

"They" who? The DOJ? Some random cop? It's a RAW, they will have no PC to confiscate.

[section31]

You and your friends on CALGUNS and your lawyers have every right to an opinion about gun laws. Those opinions are completely irrelevant.

Cal DOJ can write and more importantly, enforce any directives they want. They can arrest you without probable cause, charge you with a crime and seize your guns. If you are charged, a jury of your peers will decide if you are guilty of the crime charged. If they just take your guns without charging you, they may never give them back.

The California Department of Justice has a police squad dedicated to confiscating firearms from prohibited persons through the Armed Prohibited Persons System (APPS). Take a picture of your gun and send it to DOJ for registration, if they don't think it is legal, they can send their police squad to seize the gun and arrest you.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/02/robert-farago/ca-doj-gun-confiscation-team-get-wrong/

“Over the last two years, DOJ agents have investigated nearly 4,000 people and seized nearly 4,000 weapons, including nearly 2,000 handguns and more than 300 assault weapons,” reads the AG [Attorney General’s] statement. The Bureau of Firearms assistant chief says in 2013, the unit did 3,885 investigations and seized 2,714 weapons."

Your constitutional rights? Only a judge can rule these laws or regulations or their enforcement unconstitutional. This will take years no matter how many judges the new president appoints.

If you are found guilty, you may go to prison, depending on the penalty. Even if you are innocent, they may keep your guns.

There is law and there is reality. They don't have to follow the law unless a judge says so and even then (10 day wait) they may ignore the court's ruling.


This proposed regulation says BBs must stay on

https://cdn.firearmspolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/bullet-button-proposed-regulations.pdf

[Shadowdrop]

EVERYTHING in this thread is speculation, correct. HOWEVER, it is far more likely that the DOJ will attempt to void registration vs. incorrectly charge for manufacturing an AW when it is already an AW. They have total control of AW registrations. They do not have total control over the penal code. So, they'll just play the game on their terms.

Or, do you have something in either the regulations or the penal code that specifies what happens to someone who removes a reg'd AW's bullet button? Because nobody else can find anything, hence the speculation.

[IVC]

Many fish and game codes and violations in state parks are ccr's as well. These are arrestable offenses granted most are misdemeanors or infractions.

Sure, but it's not a good example because the penalties and offenses are well defined in the PC.

A better comparison would be about getting charged with too many rounds in the shotgun while shooting skeet at your local range because a flock of geese flew by to the local lake and the ranger determined you might have been hunting.

[Fox Mulder]

It's an assault weapon, but not the one you lawfully possessed prior to January 1, 2017, and not the one you registered. In a standard mag configuration it could not have been lawfully possessed prior to January 1, 2017. That alone takes you out of PC 30680(b), whatever the status of the "registration" you supposedly have.

We fundamentally disagree. I think changing one part of a firearm, other than the registered serialized part which IS the firearm according to federal law, does not make it into a different firearm. Perhaps a different configuration.


Also, please stop chopping up what I said. Quote the whole thing, or don't quote me at all.

This is what I said.

If you posess and register a 2016 BB AW in 2017 that was legally possessed and configured with a bullet button in 2016, and still configured as a 2016 BB AW at the time of registration in 2017, it is a registered AW. If you then replace the bullet button with a standard magazine release, the registration doesn't magically disappear. It is still a registered assault weapon.

Now, you can argue that you have invalidated the registration, by adding a standard mag release, but this is where we are getting into the meat of the issue.

The question is, does the CADOJ have the authority to disallow changing out the mag lock? Does the DOJ have the authority to create a new class of CA Assault weapon, independent of the law which essentially says that the bullet button is now essentially the same thing as a standard mag release in the eyes of the law, as of 1/1/17? Can the CADOJ invalidate an AW registration? By what process? Does adding a standard mag release invalidate an AW registration? By what statute?

If you can't or won't address the questions I asked just say so. Don't cut them out of what I said.

[dieselpower]

I'm still pouring outer the regulations that were released to tell me about this "voided registration" you speak of. There is plenty of information in the regulations to say what you CAN'T register. You would think they would have mentioned something about voided registration if it was such an important tenet of the regulations.


So far, all I'm seeing is that the whole voided registration was made up out of thin air in this very thread. In a response from someone who didn't know how to answer "what is the penalty for removing the BB after registration".

5477.
Registration of Assault Weapons Pursuant to Penal Code Section 30900(b)(1);
Post Registration Modification of Registered Assault Weapons, Prohibition.

(a) The release mechanism for an ammunition feeding device on an assault weapon registered pursuant to Penal Code section 30900, subdivision b (1) shall not be changed after the assault weapon is registered

(b) The prohibition in subdivision (a) does not extend to the repair or like-kind replacement of the mechanism.

(c) This prohibition in subdivision. (a) does not extend to a firearm that is undergoing the deregistration process pursuant to section 5478. Written confirmation from the Department that acknowledges the owner's intent to deregistered his or her assault weapon pursuant to section 5478 shall be proof the deregistration process has been initiated.

30900(b) (1) Any person who, from January 1, 2001, to December 31, 2016, inclusive, lawfully possessed an assault weapon that does not have a fixed magazine, as defined in Section 30515, including those weapons with an ammunition feeding device that can be readily removed from the firearm with the use of a tool, shall register the firearm before January 1, 2018, but not before the effective date of the regulations adopted pursuant to paragraph (5), with the department pursuant to those procedures that the department may establish by regulation pursuant to paragraph (5).

its plain english

they have created a new class of AW with this reg.

I am not saying its correct, because its clearing over stepping what they were asked to do via regulations, but they did it.

[IVC]

The rules clearly state that to be registrable, it ultimately must have a BB. Once registered, mag release cannot be changed. I don't like this, but it really isn't difficult to understand.

The rules - yes. The question is what the law says, or more specifically, whether the rules are consistent with the law.

[Redwoodm4]

You can be arrested for H&S VC the list goes on and on. Granted state park ccrs are only relevant to state park property however F&G ccrs are state wide

[IVC]

its plain english

So, what's the penalty for violating this rule?

[spoof145]

So buy raddlock?

[IVC]

EVERYTHING in this thread is speculation, correct.

Correct.

HOWEVER, it is far more likely that the DOJ will attempt to void registration vs. incorrectly charge for manufacturing an AW when it is already an AW.

There is no provision for "voiding" the registration by the DOJ, only mechanism for self deregistration.

[jcwatchdog]

The rules clearly state that to be registrable, it ultimately must have a BB. Once registered, mag release cannot be changed. I don't like this, but it really isn't difficult to understand.

Those aren't the rules, that's where the issue comes from. The regulations are not supposed to make up things not in the law. Nothing in the law says anything about keeping a gun in a particular configuration. And if they want to make a regulation saying something is against the law to do (removing the bullet button on a registered AW), there actually has to be a specific law you're breaking. Just breaking the regulation doesn't mean you're breaking the law.

[TeirHawg]

I love step by step logic trails, its easy for people to follow along.

basically we now have a 4 classes of AW in CA starting tomorrow.
1- Cat I = Roberti Roos firearms
2- Cat II = Harrott V. County of Kings named Firearms
3- Cat III = Harrott V. County of Kings by Features SB23
4- Cat IV = SB880 Bullet Button Assault Weapons.
-
Roos

Where ever this RAW "CLASS" system came from is wrong.

There is only one "CLASS" of RAW. The firearm is either a RAW or it isn't. Don't confuse the "class" with the triggering event to register the AW. Each category listed above was the triggering event to let that group of firearms into the RAW "CLASS".

[riderr]

Obviously, the letter and the sprit of the law requires the rifle to be non-AW before 01/01/2017 in order to be registered before 01/01/2018. There is no argument here.
CADOJ only prohibited the mag release change, which arguably supported the spirit of the law to maintain the new AW in pre-registration configuration. However, there is nothing in the regulations that prohibits changing other key components, like barrel. Both the law and the regulations don't prohibit changing the barrel and shortening it up to 26" OAL after the registration.

Having said that, I believe the intent of CADOJ wasn't to support the deemed spirit of the law, rather to limit the most wanted BB removal, which leaves a wiggle room for challenging the regulations in the court.

Obviously, it's nothing more, but my humble opinion.