MERGED THREADS "Bullet Button Assault Weapon" Regs

[ifilef]

And because they DIDN'T delete "detachable magazine", that makes the previous "detachable magazine" ARs and the new "fixed magazine" AR's in different categories. The BB shotguns are in the same "detachable magazine" category as it was before.

Important to read the new reg re shotguns with 'detachable magazines':

5471(a).

[dieselpower]

Ya but he had a reasonable point.... let's say nobody EVER asked if they could remove their BB after registration - that the topic never even came up, no mention of that anywhere on CG. Would the DOJ still have made a point to try and prohibit their removal after registration? Who knows, but I'll wager they never even would've thought about it.

And at the end of the day, what did we all gain from talking about it openly for the last 6 months? Not really anything, other than some fun debates.

The DOJ reg's aren't final yet, according to their website. When they are finalized, that's probably a better time to discuss any pros and cons of things they may or may not have accidentally left out.

So lets say no one said anything and then people started removing the BB after registration. Then one day a guy gets nailed for beating up his wife and they find a RAW, but wait its a AW with a normal magazine release and an ADA files charges because he / she is operating under the impression a RAW that was made a RAW by a BB regulation.

Understand the law was clear from the very start. The only reason we are getting to register is because the BB equipped firearm has been deemed an AW.

Its a natural and obvious question to come up about removal either before or after registration and if neither is written in law, the unknown factor is harder to fight then the known factor.

[CAGunsChannel]

So is there a definitive step-by-step procedure to register yet?
And in case one doesn't want to register, what's the deal with the BB? I guess it's no longer needed correct??

[dieselpower]

Ya but he had a reasonable point.... let's say nobody EVER asked if they could remove their BB after registration - that the topic never even came up, no mention of that anywhere on CG. Would the DOJ still have made a point to try and prohibit their removal after registration? Who knows, but I'll wager they never even would've thought about it.

And at the end of the day, what did we all gain from talking about it openly for the last 6 months? Not really anything, other than some fun debates.

The DOJ reg's aren't final yet, according to their website. When they are finalized, that's probably a better time to discuss any pros and cons of things they may or may not have accidentally left out.

The best example is the Fixed magazine with over 10rds makes an AW law.

No one ever found out if it was true that a BB made a Fixed Magazine.

It was only a few guys here and a few lawyers here who said that.

Their stance forced the rest of us to not use our 30rd magazines in BB equipped firearms for fear of arrest.

Soon afterward the whole community as a whole said it was illegal and then LEO said it was illegal and no one ever proved that in court.

Our rights were taken away by the fact no one knew and people assumed.

As it stands I bet it was never a fact. A BB made a firearm lack the ability to detach a magazine , with or without a magazine installed. It never made a Fixed Magazine and because there was no definition of Fixed Magazine none of us could prove it didnt.

[dieselpower]

So is there a definitive step-by-step procedure to register yet?
And in case one doesn't want to register, what's the deal with the BB? I guess it's no longer needed correct??

No DoJ is re-writing the regs. Dont remove the BB just yet.

[dieselpower]

Important to read the new reg re shotguns with 'detachable magazines':

5471)a).

we are seeing the DoJ has accidentally turned all semiauto shotguns into AWs. We do not believe this was on purpose, but it seems when they removed an exemption for tube feed ammunition feeding devices, those tubes became not fixed magazines.

I talked to CWDraco, who is a good weapon specialist. Seems almost all S/A tube fed shotguns are attached either by threading which can be removed by hand or a tool to assist but not needed. Some are crimped on which would appear to meet permanently attached criteria.

Funny stuff considering if not fixed nothing is stopping any of the 58 DAs across Ca to charge people with illegal unregistered AW shotguns.

[CAGunsChannel]

No DoJ is re-writing the regs. Dont remove the BB just yet.

Yeah, not doing anything until something is definitive by end of 2017... Still hoping Trump will smack some sense into CA Lawmakers and that SCOTUS will eventually side with us!

[dieselpower]

Yeah, not doing anything until something is definitive by end of 2017... Still hoping Trump will smack some sense into CA Lawmakers and that SCOTUS will eventually side with us!

SCOTUS has already sided with us. CA anti-gun Politicians dont care.

[ifilef]

Read 30515(a)(7) re SA shotguns with detachable magazines as AW, and then read reg 5471(a).

Ralph has possessed a SA shotgun with BB prior to 1/1/2017. Can he lawfully register this firearm as an AW in 2017?

[CandG]

No DoJ is re-writing the regs. Dont remove the BB just yet.

Other than the fact that the reg's aren't officially final yet, is there a source that says they are actually making changes to it?

[dieselpower]

Read 30515(a)(7) re SA shotguns with detachable magazines as AW, and then read reg 5471(a).

Ralph has possessed a SA shotgun with BB prior to 1/1/2017. Can he lawfully register this firearm as an AW in 2017?

Comments?

yes many sasg were not aws because the stock was pinned to not collapse but the tube magazine can be unscrewed by hand. therefore its not a fixed magazine. hopefully someone will find the answer to why these "featureless" sg are not AWs now. yes a BB sasg can be registered. as per (pp)

Other than the fact that the reg's aren't officially final yet, is there a source that says they are actually making changes to it?

only that they updated the website on the 4th to say the regs are not ready yet. this was after submitting to OAL, which should have posted them in the code in less than a day. like they did the law.

[ifilef]

yes many sasg were not aws because the stock was pinned to not collapse but the tube magazine can be unscrewed by hand. therefore its not a fixed magazine. hopefully someone will find the answer to why these "featureless" sg are not AWs now. yes a BB sasg can be registered. as per (pp)
...
...

You are confusing different subsections of 30515 re shotguns in an unintelligible response to the fact pattern and law that I cited to you.

Someone else please comment. Also, what is sasg and sg?

[dieselpower]

You are confusing different subsections of 30515 re shotguns in an unintelligible response to the fact pattern and law that I cited to you.

Someone else please comment. Also, what is sasg and sg?

wow, sasg semiautomatic shotgun, sg shotgun

please show me where a sasg with a pistol grip and a tube magazine that can be unscrewed and removed by hand is not an aw.

[dieselpower]

You are confusing different subsections of 30515 re shotguns in an unintelligible response to the fact pattern and law that I cited to you.

Someone else please comment. Also, what is sasg and sg?

read (pp)

[1911su16b870]

FWIW DOJ has overstepped the CA ban-islation by adding shotguns to the regulations, the legislature did not have shotguns in the bills.

BWiese's post quoted herein:

[B]

• DOES THIS NEW LAW CHANGE APPLY TO SEMIAUTO SHOTGUNS w/"BULLET BUTTON" MAG. LOCKS?
  
  NO. The changes to SB23 definitions apply specifically in relation to "semiauto centerfire rifles"
  & "semiauto pistols" - but not shotguuns.
  
  The former two AW sub-definitions now include mention of "fixed magazines" - while the latter shotgun-
  based statutory AW definition still is unchanged and still uses term "detachable magazine".
  
  Changes to the shotgun matter via DOJ regulation attempts are "underground regulation" clearly extending
  legislative intent of the statute, and would be readily challengeable in court and/or Office of Administrative
  Law. ("Expresio unius").
  
  Note that Saiga-type semiauto SB23 shotguns with BulletButton maglocks are statutorily not "new AWs" even
  in 2017. However, do note that law enforcement - historically with minimal correct competence in CA gun law
  - may incorrectly think that ALL BulletButton-style maglocked firearms are AWs when in fact the new restrictions
  apply to rifles and pistols only and not shotguns.