Need help with 450 Bushmaster loads.

[GunNut]

230gn. or 250gn. FMJ

Thanks! I guess I'm still in the realm of safty. Does anyone make a 250gn. FMJ bullet? I'm really looking for something to stop a raging Chevy!
Thanks again for all of your help. It's a real blessing to find so much knowledge of this subject.

btw; I woundering if Bushmaster stopped along the way to look at an AR-15 in 45ACP? I have seen 9mm.

[Slash2]

Thanks! I guess I'm still in the realm of safty. Does anyone make a 250gn. FMJ bullet? I'm really looking for something to stop a raging Chevy!
Thanks again for all of your help. It's a real blessing to find so much knowledge of this subject.

btw; I woundering if Bushmaster stopped along the way to look at an AR-15 in 45ACP? I have seen 9mm.

Back a few pages are some pictures of some 250gr Montana Gold FMJ's that I've been playing with. Most .45 Long Colt bullets are 250 grain.

[Siringo]

Back a few pages are some pictures of some 250gr Montana Gold FMJ's that I've been playing with. Most .45 Long Colt bullets are 250 grain.

Per some recents tests of mine -- 38 grains of Lil'gun with the 250 gr Montana bullet yielded nice groups. Don't know the velocity though. Lighter charges than this did not give good results. The bullet is actually .4505 in diameter and needs a heavier charge to slug the bullet in the barrel to give an adequate seal. A fellow shooter shot a 1 1/2 inch group with that bullet and load.

I am going to try some of the heavy charges over the holidays.

[MudBug]

Per some recents tests of mine -- 38 grains of Lil'gun with the 250 gr Montana bullet yielded nice groups. Don't know the velocity though. Lighter charges than this did not give good results. The bullet is actually .4505 in diameter and needs a heavier charge to slug the bullet in the barrel to give an adequate seal. A fellow shooter shot a 1 1/2 inch group with that bullet and load.

I am going to try some of the heavy charges over the holidays.

That odd since the 250 grn bullets are actually listed as .452 while the rest of their 45 cal bullets are listed as .451.

[Wildcatter]

Some random thoughts and observations..

The kill Bullets are coming along, we’re in excess of the 375HH energy numbers now and closing on the 458wm numbers..

The world of guns has gone crazy with Obomination panic fever, guess it is easier to buy guns and ammo, in a panic before the coming Ban, than to go out and vote against that looming event. Free “SUPER” bullets to those that did vote, wasn’t enough to get the vote out among us, far too few did so, and to them that did I’m going to give them allot of the new bullet and then when the results start to say “HOLY COW” and turns the world of ballistics up-side-down, and a new ban comes to fruition, then there will be those that will regret their in-actions..

Hornady bullets and brass are indeed in our very near future and a new loading/bullet, may just be in the offing as well..

The 450b is staking up an impressive score this hunting season and is converting many of the other big bore AR guys, the versatility of a Hugh bullet selection (.4515 to.458) and the ability to use standard AR mags for higher capacity and other advantages, just seems to make more sense..

The Hornady ammo in a quality Bushmaster weapon, is just wildly accurate, as it is devastatingly deadly..

Safety First..t

[450BOOMER]

I'm Hooked

Hi Guys,

I've been reading this thread since page 5 started; I decided to get a Bushmaster 450 carbine a couple of months ago instead of a Beowulf after reading all the good work posted in this thread. I just shot mine for the first time Saturday.

This is my first AR, I'm very pleased with the cartridge and my rifle. My main reason for selecting this over the other "big bore" AR's is the flexibility to use many of my 45-70 bullets, cast bullet molds, 45 Colt and 45 ACP bullets. I'm real impressed with the 250 grain factory load bullet and I hope Hornaday will offer a factory load with the 300 grain ML/SST bullet next. Using 300's is where I think this cartridge and rifle will become legendary.

I haven't been interested in the AR platform until now due to the characteristically anemic power levels of the platform. This 450 Bushmaster is a great cartridge that delivers impressive energy levels with great efficiency but moderate felt recoil. The same energy levels in a falling block or lever action aren't nearly as much fun... I love shooting big bores that re-define what "cover" is and the 450 Bushmaster certainly does that.

I loaded a few re-sized RCBS 45-300-FN 320 grain bullets to a little over 2000 fps with 38 grains of Little Gun and everything cycled and worked great. I also shot two boxes of factory stuff to get more cases for some load development work and I didn't notice any discomfort at all today.

As time and resources permit, I look forward to sharing my experiences with you.

I'm interested in case gage too.

Boomer

[Siringo]

Welcome to the fold!!!

[Siringo]

Hi Guys,

I've been reading this thread since page 5 started; I decided to get a Bushmaster 450 carbine a couple of months ago instead of a Beowulf after reading all the good work posted in this thread. I just shot mine for the first time Saturday.

This is my first AR, I'm very pleased with the cartridge and my rifle. My main reason for selecting this over the other "big bore" AR's is the flexibility to use many of my 45-70 bullets, cast bullet molds, 45 Colt and 45 ACP bullets. I'm real impressed with the 250 grain factory load bullet and I hope Hornaday will offer a factory load with the 300 grain ML/SST bullet next. Using 300's is where I think this cartridge and rifle will become legendary.

I haven't been interested in the AR platform until now due to the characteristically anemic power levels of the platform. This 450 Bushmaster is a great cartridge that delivers impressive energy levels with great efficiency but moderate felt recoil. The same energy levels in a falling block or lever action aren't nearly as much fun... I love shooting big bores that re-define what "cover" is and the 450 Bushmaster certainly does that.

I loaded a few re-sized RCBS 45-300-FN 320 grain bullets to a little over 2000 fps with 38 grains of Little Gun and everything cycled and worked great. I also shot two boxes of factory stuff to get more cases for some load development work and I didn't notice any discomfort at all today.

As time and resources permit, I look forward to sharing my experiences with you.

I'm interested in case gage too.

Boomer

Where these gas checked?

[450BOOMER]

Where these gas checked?

Thanks for the welcome,

Yes, the RCBS 45-300-FN is a gas check design that weighs about 319 grains with my 50/50 wheel weight/Linotype alloy. I size the air cooled BHN 14-15 bullets nose first to 0.457" and then re-size them to 0.452"... again nose first, then lube them in the 0.452" die. The bullets end up at 0.453" and This bullet chambers, feeds, and functions fine with a medium heavy taper crimp at a 2.15" COL.

Plain base bullets usually won't do well much over 1500 fps; IMO only gas check cast bullet designs should be considered for the 450b as the brass is strong and cases won't seal well at lower plain base bullet pressures.

I have some nice 405 grain GC bullets from a custom designed mold I'm going to try as well, but cast bullets in the 300 -360 grain range will work best in the 450b. Over 3000 foot-pounds of energy can be reached with bullets in this range while 400 grain class bullets won't do much better than 2500 foot-pounds and felt recoil is greater.

Boomer

[Wildcatter]

Way to go Boomer and I welcome thee as well. I can see this isn't your first rodeo either. Your data is very well received and we thank you for it. It's good to see the 450 Bushmaster is starting to be recognized for it's extreme versatility. There are still those that think that .451" means pistol bullets and equate that into pistol performance (go figure), as apposed to realizing that this caliber is the most used caliber over the last 150+ years, with more bullets available than any other caliber too and all that is needed is a mission profile and then choosing the best bullet. The .451 Barrel will use any of the other 45 cal diameters, something that is not practical for a .458" only barrel. I once made a 458Win Mag in a Mauser rifle with a .451 barrel, for a buddy, he doesn't even bother to resize the factory fodder (something I don't recommend you to do at all) and sees no increase in pressure, but his hand loaded 230gr .451 ball bullets go faster than Greased Lightning.

Safety First..t

[450BOOMER]

Thanks Wildcatter,

you're right, most of the jacketed bullet guys don't associate 0.458" bullets with the 45 Colt and 45 ACP but many Cast Bullet nuts like myself have been using 300-360 grain 0.458" bullets re-sized to 0.452"-0.454" for years in 45 Colt Ruger Blackhawks, single shots, and 1892/1894 lever guns for a lot of years.

45 ACP hand loads using re-sized 45 Colt Lyman 452424 and 454190 bullets in strong revolvers like the Blackhawk 45 Convertible and 1911's rated for +P loads add another dimension of self defense capability for the 45 ACP. A big, heavy, 250 -260 grain semi wadcutter out of a 1911 or 4" revolver at regular 45 ACP velocities is serious medicine.

All of the 0.451"-0.454" 45 caliber chamberings share the capability of using bullets anywhere from 160 to 500+ grains in every conceivable style from full wadcutter to spire points. Indeed, the 45's may be the most versatile of all calibers.

Boomer

[Wildcatter]

Thanks Wildcatter,

you're right, most of the jacketed bullet guys don't associate 0.458" bullets with the 45 Colt and 45 ACP but many Cast Bullet nuts like myself have been using 300-360 grain 0.458" bullets re-sized to 0.452"-0.454" for years in 45 Colt Ruger Blackhawks, single shots, and 1892/1894 lever guns for a lot of years.

45 ACP hand loads using re-sized 45 Colt Lyman 452424 and 454190 bullets in strong revolvers like the Blackhawk 45 Convertible and 1911's rated for +P loads add another dimension of self defense capability for the 45 ACP. A big, heavy, 250 -260 grain semi wadcutter out of a 1911 or 4" revolver at regular 45 ACP velocities is serious medicine.

All of the 0.451"-0.454" 45 caliber chamberlain share the capability of using bullets anywhere from 160 to 500+ grains in every conceivable style from full wadcutter to spire points. Indeed, the 45's may be the most versatile of all calibers.

Boomer

Well said Boomer and your in site is great...Your in-put to this thread will be invaluable..

The fact that one can shoot 458's in a 451 barrel & 358's and 357's in a 355 (9mm) barrel, with perfect safety, if proper loading and safety procedures are followed (if you don't know what they are don't try it), is not a new idea. Many long years ago P.O.Ackley wrote of such and reported no measurable increase in pressure. For well more than 40 years I too have done so and report same (your results can be far different, although our measuring equipment today is much more sensitive and some, but not significant, increase in pressure is now measurable). In fact I designed the 45 Professional with Hornady 350gr 458RN bullets, to be used in 451 barrels and it was a sharp looking cartridge, like a 30 carbine on steroids. I made the camber neck large enough to chamber any 45 cal bullet of the time and all this in a 451 barrel. The reason you can not do that today, is because the Bushmaster chamberings are tight to the 451 bullets, which is the main reason why such in creditable groups are had with quality Hornady ammo!

So, unless you are willing to degrade accuracy a little and freshen the chamber, you must resize the bullets larger than .451", for a 450b. It's such a simple and inexpensive exercise to resize, I think I'll stick to that. Don't let anyone suggest you can not, with perfect safety, use 458's in a 450 Bushmaster, they are ignorant and just talking out their...ears?...wink.

Safety First..t

[450BOOMER]

I've read everything I could find about the 45 Professional and the articles you provided links to Wildcatter. I heard there was a writeup in one of the gun magazine annuals but I haven't been able to locate the article and that the 45 Professional is your brainchild. IMO your cooperation with Hornaday and Bushmaster resulting in the 450 Bushmaster has produced a friendlier, more versatile cartridge.

Hornaday 250 and 300 grain SST bullets with their higher ballistic coefficient get back much of the energy lost from the reduced case capacity and again; IMO, improve efficiency by making the slightly faster burning powders (296, H110, & Little Gun) a good choice for use in 16" carbines... ideal for the AR platform.

I'm not a fan of 60,000 psi loads, 45,000 - 50,000 psi is OK with me depending on bullet weight and the weight of the rifle. Heavy loads in a light rifle are brutal requiring discipline and frequent training to shoot well. The decision to load the 450b to 37K-38K psi factory load levels was smart as the load contains plenty of energy that most AR-15 users can shoot without intimidation.

I share Col. Cooper's distain for the 5.56x45 as a military cartridge and why I consider the 450 Bushmaster the first AR rifle suitable for my use. I considered the 458 SOCOM and 50 Beowulf but their lack of a "parent" case to fall back to if discontinued and the quality of Bushmaster's products along with my good experiences hand-loading the 45 ACP and 45 Colt to enhanced performance levels with complete safety made my choice easy.

Boomer

[Wildcatter]

The 45 Professional is not only my brainchild, but the whole Big Bore concept in the AR system is my baby as well (just ask those guys, they will admit it but don't really like too), years ahead of those other guys, who tried to copy my work and fell short, IMO. Not to bad mouth those guys (458socom & 50 Beowulf gents), because I've met them and I think they are, in fact, the Salt-Of-The-Earth, types.

Boomer you are probably right, even though we can get much better performance out of the 450, punishing recoil will stop many, except the most hardy of us and I only shoot the bad boys at game animals, when I won't feel the effects so much. Other than that I'm shooting from machines, for I shoot way to much to shoulder fire these Hypo Loads on a regular basis.

After the first of the year, remind me, and I will turn you on to a Engineering Study done by Wayne State University (concerning my work with the AR platforms and the 45 Pro) and a whole raft of engineers which included the real master-mind behind the M-16 Program, Jim Sullivan. They wanted to prove me wrong and ended up being my best customers.

MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL !!!

Safety First..t

[GunNut]

Got my 450BM die's from Midway $60 plus shipping. A LB. of LiL Gun local gun shop. Loaded up 10 rounds using Slashe's recipie. 45gr.LIL Gun, 230FMJ "Ball", Rem 6 1/2 primers. heavy tapper crimp. Cases seem full. est volocity 2550. 16" barrel, EOTeck sight. Stoled my wifes over mitt, no recoil pad yet. Went to the indoor range "25yd." Fired 10 factory and 10 reloads. Center of target GONE! hole about the size of a Half Dollar coin. Awsome!! Recoil about the same. White muzzel flash, no smoke.Reload cases look the same as factory! Shooting my Thumper for about the same as my 1911? SWEET!!! How much to go up? .5gr? OH! BTW! While at Midway, looked for more ammo, noticed that Remington 450BM will be coming soon!! Shooting my 1911 and then my Thumper! What a comdo!! You guy's are awsome!!