Need help with 450 Bushmaster loads.

[sparx]

vote

cout me 3 for McCain
rangers lead the way

[Siringo]

Ok, maybe just one, to wet the whistle...how about "Hemispherical" This bullet and loading procedures has years of Automotive research into it and actually bust many long held paradigms and is all new and different thinking and science..

Keep up with the voting reports, I'm going to need all your R&D input after you get your bullets and start to play with them.

Safety First..t

Heading up north deer hunting today. Will use the 450 w/factory loads for the frist one (not particular -- just can't have spots).

[MudBug]

I voted and drug my brother down that was planing to not vote because "It wouldn't matter since McCain would obviously take AZ"

[sparx]

got a spike yesterday with the 450 just north of spokane

[Slash2]

AA1680 and 250gr Montana Gold

I'm still playing with these 250gr Montana Gold bullets. If I back the bullet .030" from the lands I get an OAL of 2.125". that leaves about .25" in the case and gives me a potential case capacity of 51grs. using AA1680. I've loaded up a spread of these starting at 45grs. and going up to 51grs.



You can see by the deformed bullet that I'm giving them a good crimp, .470" dia. at the neck. Even with this, the inertia of chambering a round will move the bullet forward.




I've also done some with an AOL of 2.02". This puts the case mouth into the cannular (sp). These have a case capacity of 46.1grs. of AA1680. The bullet still moves forward a bit when chambered, but not much.



I plan on making it to the range this week. I'll report back with results.

[Wildcatter]

Check out this Hornady Cartridge Board, read the description, we made it, because the 450 is a SAMMI SPEC (A.K.A. FACTORY AMMUNITION), as opposed to the other AR big bores that are still, by definition, mere wildcats..

http://www.cabelas.com/prod-1/0062184216604a.shtml

Safety First..t

[Siringo]

I'm still playing with these 250gr Montana Gold bullets. If I back the bullet .030" from the lands I get an OAL of 2.125". that leaves about .25" in the case and gives me a potential case capacity of 51grs. using AA1680. I've loaded up a spread of these starting at 45grs. and going up to 51grs.



You can see by the deformed bullet that I'm giving them a good crimp, .470" dia. at the neck. Even with this, the inertia of chambering a round will move the bullet forward.





I've also done some with an AOL of 2.02". This puts the case mouth into the cannular (sp). These have a case capacity of 46.1grs. of AA1680. The bullet still moves forward a bit when chambered, but not much.



I plan on making it to the range this week. I'll report back with results.

I purchased a Lee 45-70 factory crimp die. Since the 450 is 0.40 inches shorter, I used a part of my .452 Lee Sizer stem to allow the 450 case to enter the die so it could be crimped. I had to add spacers around the post so the case went into the die.This type of crimp seems to hold better, but the bullet still can move due to inertia. I would send pics, but for some reason beyond me I am not able to post attachments!!!????

[Wildcatter]

Check out this Hornady Cartridge Board, read the description, we made it, because the 450 is a SAMMI SPEC (A.K.A. FACTORY AMMUNITION), as opposed to the other AR big bores that are still, by definition, mere wildcats..

http://www.cabelas.com/prod-1/0062184216604a.shtml

Safety First..t

P.S... This the Oct issue of GUNS MAGAZINE, without the pretty pictures. BTW..If you see articles printed somewhere let all of us know, some of these can have a wealth of load data or just plane interesting..t http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...g=artBody;col1

[Slash2]

the bullet .030" from the lands I get an OAL of 2.125". that leaves about .25" in the case and gives me a potential case capacity of 51grs. using AA1680. I've loaded up a spread of these starting at 45grs. and going up to 51grs.

Range results:

46grs- 2121, 2103, 2063 fps
47grs- 2127, 2102, 2111 fps
48grs- 2153, 2158, 2085 fps
49grs- 2093, 2125, 2065 fps
50grs- 2103, 2121, 2149 fps
51grs- 2168, 2160, 2162 fps

The 47gr load gave the best group - .5" @100yds, the rest were around 2''.

I also did some with an AOL of 2.02". This puts the case mouth into the cannular (sp). These have a case capacity of 46.1grs. of AA1680. The bullet still moves forward a bit when chambered, but not much.

With these the velocity was 2008, 2011 and 1979 fps. with about a 4" group.

As you can see, the velocities didn't change much, if any, with increased powder charges, but the fireball coming out of the end of the barrel did! There were NO signs pressure, so I didn't bother taking any pictures of the cases. The cases were sooty though, so I guess they weren't generating enough pressure to seal against the chamber wall. At 48 grs and above the bolt would not lock back.

I'm assuming that all of this means that the charge was maxed out at 46 grs and any additional powder was just burning up in front of the gun. Is this a correct assumption to make?

What needs to happen at this point? Magnum primers? Increased crimp? heavier bullets? Back to H110 or Lil' gun?

[Siringo]

I guess my take on this is the SR Primer can not efficiently light that much powder. May be why Hornady used that so the round can not be hotrodded to much -- I may be wrong. Another part of the puzzle is the bullets (Montanta) measure .4505. I do not know what charge would be needed to "bump" the bullet into full barrel diameter (.452), but maybe a faster powder would work better. I have some loaded up with 38 grs of Lilgun', but have not gotten to the range yet due to hunting. I will do that over Thanksgiving. In my testing I have noticed that as the powder charge increases with some loads, the cases are not ejected as far -- maybe meaning the pressure has dropped due to an inefficient burn.

[Slash2]

I guess my take on this is the SR Primer can not efficiently light that much powder. May be why Hornady used that so the round can not be hotrodded to much -- I may be wrong. Another part of the puzzle is the bullets (Montanta) measure .4505. I do not know what charge would be needed to "bump" the bullet into full barrel diameter (.452), but maybe a faster powder would work better. I have some loaded up with 38 grs of Lilgun', but have not gotten to the range yet due to hunting. I will do that over Thanksgiving. In my testing I have noticed that as the powder charge increases with some loads, the cases are not ejected as far -- maybe meaning the pressure has dropped due to an inefficient burn.

I also just received a Lee 45-70 side crimp die, my hopes being that by increasing the crimp pressure down from the case mouth the bullet pull will increase thus increasing the powder burn.

I have modified the die so that the crimp begins .150" down from the case mouth, so now I am crimping at the case mouth with the 450 factory crimp and also .150" to .250" down from the case mouth. (the crimping area is .1" long on the lee die) Now I'll be crimping the bullet near it's base too. Hopefully this will increase burn and pressure.

[Mountain Man]

To sell or not to sell

Hello everyone;I have a question ,and need your opinion.I have a Colt m4,and a Panther SASS 308 I have been thinking about selling them,I like the 450 more,and have too many hobbies.Problem is,I don't know if I would ever be able,financially or legally,to buy these at a later time.
My real concern is there is no telling what the demmecrats might do,and I would hate to loose my investment,as I am sure you all would.
Any way,I would appreciate your input,and advice.Best regards,Dave

[ar15barrels]

Hello everyone;I have a question ,and need your opinion.I have a Colt m4,and a Panther SASS 308 I have been thinking about selling them,I like the 450 more,and have too many hobbies.Problem is,I don't know if I would ever be able,financially or legally,to buy these at a later time.
My real concern is there is no telling what the demmecrats might do,and I would hate to loose my investment,as I am sure you all would.
Any way,I would appreciate your input,and advice.Best regards,Dave

Keep them.
We all go through phases.
If you sell them, you will kick yourself later.

[Wildcatter]

Keep them.
We all go through phases.
If you sell them, you will kick yourself later.

Absolutely...I sold an original 1911 once, out of my personal stash and have regretted it ever since. Those smoke poles of yours don't eat nut'en, so just keep'em, get more. These gun control nuts can't make laws without holes in them, to the point we can always do something to get what we want, even if, they wanted to come and pick them up. Which isn't possible without a fight and there isn't a police dept anywhere that is dumb enough to do that or would, the rank and file would just say "NO" and then join resistance!

I feel better now, the meds are kicking in...

Now then 'ol Mountain Man, Just what do we have to do to get you shooting a brand spanking new, shiney, 450 Bushmaster?

I'll buy your first batch of cookies, made with .4515" dia., chocolate chips!!! Anybody second that?

Safety First..t

[jagermaster]

Keep them.
We all go through phases.
If you sell them, you will kick yourself later.

+1

I have only sold 5 guns in my life and regret all but 2