Need help with 450 Bushmaster loads.

[Slash2]

muzzle loading scopes

Rumor has it that the muzzle loading scopes by Leopold and Nikon with their range finding reticles are a good match for the factory 450 ballistics.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=211993

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=755669

Anyone have any experience with these scopes?

[Siringo]

Slash -- this is true about the scopes. Wished I would have thought about that before I set up my rifle. I use a straight 4 power Leupold with a little red dot mounted on the scope. Similar to those sold by JP Enterprises. The only consideration with the muzzleloader scopes and their rangefinding is they are set up for 1.5 inches above the bore and on the AR15 we are 2.5 inches above the bore. That will make a slight change in the trajectory -- although small and for hunting applications to 200 yards -- nothing to fret about.

[450BOOMER]

ooh wow! Could it be possible to make some high capacity mags for the 450?
or do I have to keep screwing around with my band saw,drill press and grinder?

If you're in a state that allows them, just run a 1/2" ball endmill down the midle of the carrier of any 30 round 223 magazine as Wildcatter has recommended.

We don't do stuff here in Kalifornia, even if it is 60 degrees and sunny today.

Boomer

[Slash2]

If you're in a state that allows them, just run a 1/2" ball endmill down the midle of the carrier of any 30 round 223 magazine as Wildcatter has recommended.

We don't do stuff here in Kalifornia, even if it is 60 degrees and sunny today.

Boomer

You can also buy the 450 followers from Bushmaster. I reccomend that you use steel 30 rd mag bodies and not aluminum.

They'll hold 11 rds, so in California you need to put a spacer at the bottom so that they hold only 10 rds.

[Slash2]

Slash -- this is true about the scopes. Wished I would have thought about that before I set up my rifle. I use a straight 4 power Leupold with a little red dot mounted on the scope. Similar to those sold by JP Enterprises. The only consideration with the muzzleloader scopes and their rangefinding is they are set up for 1.5 inches above the bore and on the AR15 we are 2.5 inches above the bore. That will make a slight change in the trajectory -- although small and for hunting applications to 200 yards -- nothing to fret about.

Thanks Siringo.

I figure if I match my loads to the factory ballistics then the scope will work for all of my bullets and loads. That means backing off significantly from the upper end potential of the gun, but I don't think I'm cut out to be the scout out in Indian territory.

You know how you can tell which one is the scout?

He's the one with arrows in his chest.

[Siringo]

Regarding Mags

I use the Sig 556 with the Blue Follower (needed to be fitted) and it can hold 12 rounds. I also replaced the springs in the Bushmaster Mags and I can hold 6 to 7. I also purchased a couple of PMags (20 rd) and modified them slightly. I removed the rib on the inside front by using a 3/8" square stock with sandpaper. I then put two nylon pan head screws (8 x 32) into the follower (top and bottom on front portion that used to ride on the rib). That way the follower slides up and down easily and limits the up and down tilting, plus back and forth.These will hold 8 rounds with the dust cover for the mag attached.

BTW -- on plastic follows, I use a dremel tool with their sanding drum to do the same thing that the end mill would have done.

I like the 20 round PMag. Wished someone would make a dedicated mag for this round. Maybe with Remington coming out with their 30 Remington AR based on the 450 Bushmaster Cartridge that will happen. We most likely are going to have a whole family of new cartridges based on the 450.

[450BOOMER]

You can also buy the 450 followers from Bushmaster. I reccomend that you use steel 30 rd mag bodies and not aluminum.

They'll hold 11 rds, so in California you need to put a spacer at the bottom so that they hold only 10 rds.

That's good info Slash2,

I don't own any 30 round mags and I obviously can't order any. My personal opinion is that with the 450's power and accuracy I don't need hi-cap mags but if you're using the rifle in competition I understand the need for 10 round capacity and I agree, the steel mags are the way to go.

Here's a note I saved about 450 Bushmaster mags. I don't remember where or I would credit the author.

"The 5 round mag thing is interesting. They ship it with a 5 rounder, obviously, to make it legal for hunting in most states. All the mag is is a 20 round AR mag with a single-shot follower. In taking it apart, however, they've substituted the standard 20 round spring with a longer one that takes up more room. That's the way they reduce the capacity from 7 (which is what you get when you put a standard spring in) to 7. I swapped out the springs, and have an 7 rd mag. The 30 rounders hold 10."

Boomer

[Wildcatter]

Randall, which one of those renegades in the pic is you.. Hey! ..."Them's is sho-nuff, mighty fine machine tools you awl's gots"! And I am impressed, some of you guys can about do anything you put your mind too... You guys are getting it, I'm hearing all kinds of very good advice... On the Follower, the only thing I'd do different is to flip over the standard Follower, ruff up the undersides some and pour in JB Weld (found at any automotive parts house). Then after it hardens run down the center of the top side with a half inch Ball Nose End Mill. The idea of using the sanding drum on a Dremel Tool is a great one.. I have used standard GI mags for years and still do, with no ill effects. The steel C-Products mags are beautiful. On a 30rd GI mag, the feed lips are a little funky and if you pull up on the nose of an inserted cartridge, they will rotate up some. This looks bad, but the dang things just work, even if they are somewhat rotated up in the mag at the time of feeding. The bolt just knocks them back down and the things just keep on feeding. If you do the jb weld thing and just forget the blue follower, the mag usually, depending on the maker, will hold 12 rds.. A dedicated LE mag is in the works, it will probably hold about 20/25rds+-. I envision a mag that just as it comes out of the mag-well, will widen into a double stack.

Safety First..t

[jagermaster]

Rumor has it that the muzzle loading scopes by Leopold and Nikon with their range finding reticles are a good match for the factory 450 ballistics.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=211993

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=755669

Anyone have any experience with these scopes?

I have the Nikon Prostaff BDC but i have not tried to match up the BDC to yardage yet. My shots are usually 50 to 150 yds during hunting season, mabe after deer season i will try it.

[ar15barrels]

Randall, which one of those renegades in the pic is you.. Hey! ..."Them's is sho-nuff, mighty fine machine tools you awl's gots"!

Front row, squatting down, 1 from the right.
Blue windbreaker and brown cap, white knuckles showing on my black gloves.

[jagermaster]

PICS, PICS, PICS... Way to go, Gunga Din, you 'ol monster slayer!! It's easy when you gotta Big Nuff Spear, huh?

Its funny you made a comment about a spear because the day befor the buck i killed 2 hogs one with a spear and one with a Kbar.
The camp i was at used dogs to corner the pig and when we found them we would let the pit bulls loose. The pits would grab the pig in the face then we would grab the pigs back legs and throw him to the ground jump on top of him and stab him under the ribs and fish around for his heart. This photo is of the pig i killed with the kbar he weighed 210lbs.

[GunNut]

EOTech

I have the Nikon Prostaff BDC but i have not tried to match up the BDC to yardage yet. My shots are usually 50 to 150 yds during hunting season, mabe after deer season i will try it.

I went with EoTech on 4 of my guns. ar15 pistol,car15,ar10 and 450bushmaster. Very quick and easy to point. same sight picture no matter which gun I pick up. also have the 3x magnifier for the 450 & ar10 if needed. Around here "N. Ga." your not going to get a shot @ 200yrds. normally 100 or less in brush where this cartridge Will excell crashing through like a freight train.

[Wildcatter]

Ok, everyone repeat after me...What do we call the man that kills pigs with a knife?..."Sir" ...And besides, that buck is mighty fine too!!..Were you able to recover any of the bullet or did it fly on threw? What is your assessment of the terminal effects. We need the whole sordid story, Location, altitude, bullet, bullet fragments and their weight, load, time of day, temp, angle of attack, penetration, internal/external damage, how the animal reacted, how far it traveled after the hit, comments in general an observations. Same things from you other killers too.

[Slash2]

This photo is of the pig i killed with the kbar he weighed 210lbs.

What's up with the guy behind you jagermaster? Did one of those pigs rip him a new one?

[jagermaster]

Tuesday my 450bm drew first and second blood with factory ammo.

Took a 9 point in the morning. He was at 50 yds slightly quartering towards me so i put one just behind the shoulder and it exited 3 in behind his other shoulder. I had to track him for 75 yds but a half blind person could have seen it. It looked like he was dragging a paint roller behind him.

I took a doe that evening. She was quartering hard to me so i had to put it through her shoulder to hit her heart. When she got hit she did a flip! DRT

I love my bushmaster more than anyother gun i own, and i have a lot of guns.


on a side note in the midway flyer that came in the mail today Hornady lever revolution bullets. 250gr .452 dia flex tip $25.99 per 50 Product # 693-974

Both shots went in and out no bullet to recover.
I was using factory ammo.
Temp was about 28 wich is very uncommon for this winter since it was 70 the day before.
The guided hunt was given to me by a friends father in law(cool guy), so I didnt skin them and no post mortuam.
The guy behind me was dumping water from his boots. We had to go into a pond with the hog. CRAZY times