Need help with 450 Bushmaster loads.

[Siringo]

One more thing, I was told that they use copper to plate the chrome on the bushy barrels, don't use copper solvents to clean chrome lined bores! use only CLP etc if the chrome is scratched you may ruin your barrel with copper solvents.

Hard chrome barrel interiors are stuff as hell. That is why they are used. Copper solvents should never be left in the barrel more than 15 minutes or steel may be etched. At least according to Barnes on the CR10 product. Nothing is even mentioned regarding Chrome. CLP will not remove heavy copper fouling -- the down side of using these type of bullets.

I do need a chrono ------.

[Siringo]

You may need to chrony your loads to see the real deal here. I found in my loading that loads higher than 36.5 of H110 started to loose speed! and at 38gr about 1 in 5 was 200ft/s slow.

Does anyone here know if the use of SR Primers limits the amount of powder that can be efficiently burned?

[bla]

The guy that told me that was a sniper in the military. They clean wilt CLP and a brush.

[Mountain Man]

More on 450 bushmaster loads

Greetings to y'all from Georgia.I have been following this on going process with great interest.
I bought a 450 bushy 20" rifle in early spring,and 3 boxes of factory ammo.27.00 a box is pricey,but ya gotta get the brass somehow.Like you,I found out that info,dies,etc would be a while coming,so I just waited,something I am Not known for.I almost sold this gun twice,but kept it.
I have been shooting a .50 beowulf for several years,reloading for it with excellent results,having good data is the thing.
About the same time you started using the Lil Gun,an old friend and I were talking about using it,with a near identical loading as you found.I figured if the .50 with a 335g bullet liked 37.5 of lil,then a good place to start might be 35 of the same in250g,450bushy.
I got the dies and some 250g and 300 g hornady .452 xtps from Midway,and loaded up a few at 35g.This shot well at 50 yds,very close in recoil to factory.But I wanted something to shoot that was less punishing.I loaded some cases to 30g of lil,w 250g bullets,and they hit target dead on,with excellent cycling of the action,and Way more fun to shoot.
I am going to try some other powders and see how they perform.I am glad I didn't sell this cannon,it is fun to shoot.
I hope this is of some help,thanks for allowing me to ride along.
Best regards,Red

[Siringo]

What I like about Lil'Gun is it shoots very clean. Virtually no residue in the action.

I purchased some 300gr. Remington .458 diameter bullets for the 45-70, and as per Willdcatter's previous post, I ran them through a lee .452 cast bullet sizing die. I loaded these with 30.5 grs of Lil'gun. Have no idea what the velocity was, but they shot a nice 1 3/4 inch group at 100 yards. According to the Hornaday loading data, the velocity would have been 1800 fps with their 300 gr. XTP/Mag.

[Mountain Man]

450 bushy

Did you get any dark sooting on the case rim rebate,or up near the mouth?I get some minor stuff on some,but not all.What do you think?Haven't noticed it on beo,or mt 308.Thanks

[Siringo]

Very minor on case mouth for about 1/4 inch. I don't think it is unusual because I get the same thing on my 308 and 30-06 brass.

[jagermaster]

I shot my first rounds of reloaded 450BM today. I started at 36.5gr of h110 and went to 40.6gr h110. The over all was 2.06 with hornady 240gr .452 xtp/mag. I had heavy sooting of the cartridge until I reached 40gr, but the only one that had no sooting was the highest load of 40.6gr. The last 4 that I shot had the same point of impact as the factory rounds, 40gr, 40.2gr, 40.4gr, and 40.6gr. The last 4 were also 1.1min of angle.
All of my shots were at 100 yds.

I could not be happier. My next batch will be 40.6gr.

I do have a question for some pros out their, how far over the hornady printed max loads can I go safely?

Their were no pressure signs.

[ar15barrels]

I do have a question for some pros out their, how far over the hornady printed max loads can I go safely?

Their were no pressure signs.

This is the big problem.
By the time you see pressure signs, you are well into bolt breaking territory.
Nobody can tell you how far past published loads is safe.
There are no safety indicators available with this cartridge in the AR-15 action.
If you had a pressure gun, you could develop loads with that to a pressure level and then run them in the AR as long as the chambers and barrels were the same.

[jagermaster]

This is the big problem.
By the time you see pressure signs, you are well into bolt breaking territory.
Nobody can tell you how far past published loads is safe.
There are no safety indicators available with this cartridge in the AR-15 action.
If you had a pressure gun, you could develop loads with that to a pressure level and then run them in the AR as long as the chambers and barrels were the same.

That sucks.

Since the sooting only stoped at the highest loading hornady gave, it led me to beleive that it can go higher safely. BUT I am not ready to chance my new gun, face, or fingers.

[Siringo]

Are you saying that your last 4 shots (40.0, 40.2, 40.4 and 40.6) all grouped into a 1.1 inch group?

[jagermaster]

Are you saying that your last 4 shots (40.0, 40.2, 40.4 and 40.6) all grouped into a 1.1 inch group?

yep! Made me very happy.

Sunday I shot my second round of reloads. The results were a little mixed.
The first 5 round group was 2in at 100 yds, I think it was because of my poor position and rest. I got a better rest and the second group was 1.5in 5shot group. The other 10 rounds laid waste to the 150yd irons, rapid fire. It almost gave me ....... well you know.

I think I will back it down a little and check for accuracy. I was thinking 39gr, 39.5gr and 40gr.

[Wildcatter]

This is the big problem.
By the time you see pressure signs, you are well into bolt breaking territory.
Nobody can tell you how far past published loads is safe.
There are no safety indicators available with this cartridge in the AR-15 action.
If you had a pressure gun, you could develop loads with that to a pressure level and then run them in the AR as long as the chambers and barrels were the same.

For the most part what Randall is saying is true, buuttt, let me start by saying that the sooting (as described here in these posts ) is a very well recognized symptom of the 450b case not sealing in the chamber, because of low pressures, especially in the AR. Also, pressure signs with this cartridge, using the AR platform, are actually indeed very good indicators for deciding when to stop, one just cannot automatically discount Bernoulli’s Theorem and conventional wisdom does not necessarily apply, it does, but at much different pressure levels, that one might see with say, a necked cartridge. I repeat, I have never, nor has the vast amount of users of the 45 Pro, ever broken a bolt, using this cartridge/AR combo and this with primers and other indicators, that would scare anyone to death, but don’t ever load to this extent, ever, got it? If kinetic energy performance is the goal then back off the powder when standard signs start to show up.

BTW, on another note, how about that report about using resized 458 bullets in the 450b. What does that do for the Nay-Sayers who, out of ignorance, say that there are not enough bullets in the 451 dia. (golly, there are 451 bullets for every mission anyone can think of and they will penitrate or not, depending on your mission/choise, anything you want), compared to the 458 barrels, that can only use the limited 458 dia rifle bullets? We not only can use every and all Standard 45 cal bullets, regardless of dia, but we can use them with perfect safety and accuracy, and this is the big one, without changing the Terminal Effects of those Big 458 bullets one little bit, nada! One might expect jacket separation, followed by poor tissue penetration, but they’d be wrong. Question, what do you guys think the results will be, if one were to load 451 bullets into a case and barrel designed for a 458 dia? Humph, so much for the specious, crazy arguments, seen on some of the other boards. Now go teach them guys how you made a better dicision, with way more numerous options.

[jagermaster]

Thank you for all of your advice. I have not had a chance to retrieve anymore of my bullets because I have been shooting at a public range recently, its only 15min from my house instead of the 30 min to deer camp. Yes I said deer camp, I will be hunting white tail with my 450bm.

I was able to shoot 26 of my reloads today. I loaded 8 rounds into a new mag pull pmag and it fed all 8 rounds, I loaded 8 rounds again and they all fed, On the third try it fed all but the last round. On the third attempt I filed the little titty off of the front of the mag because I noticed it was getting ragged.

There was also a nice guy that let me use his chrony.
240gr XTP/MAG 40gr H110 COL 2.060
2322 FPS
Exactly what the hornady load data states.

I found a good deal on some 275gr Barnes 460S&W bullets so I got 200 of them.
I believe this will be my new hunting bullet.
I am also going to order some lil gun because I heard it is less susceptible to temp.

I think that the barns bullets will be the best pick for the 450bm because like bearbait said " you may just peel the petals flat, or even shear, but you will likely have a bullet base that tracks on through the animal". I called barns and the petals are only 25% or less of the weight.

Just an update I called Hornady and talked to Mitch.
Nice guy and very helpful.
Confirmed all of my info and answered lots of questions.
He said H110 is the best powder and it is very close to the powder that they use in the factory ammo.
He also said that the 450bm should be loaded close to max published loads, because it seals the case to the chamber for better accuracy and smaller spread in fps.

I asked him about the 275gr Barnes and he said that the 300gr load data is the best to use. I kinda squeezed it out of him but he said i can load between the 250gr and the 300gr data but I must work it up and use a chronograph wile doing it.

[Wildcatter]