30-06 Reloading issue

[J-cat]

You should buy a set of Redding Competition Shell Holders. They will allow you to set the amount of shoulder bump easily and without complicated tinkering.

[Redemption]

Probably right but lets not kid ourselves this was a rookie mistake on my part. I will make no illusion to having done thousands of rifle brass because I have not. You can all bet its a mistake I wont make again.

Was feeling down on myself for a little bit so I went and did two things just now.

1. I measured up a case I had sized with the extractor in against one I had sized with the extractor out .304 & .298 so we are talking about 1 human hair more or less. It is really hard to say how much the case mouth & die could have squeezed down a bonded lead core projectile without yanking at least one to mic it up. I think at this point it is safe to say that any additional pressure caused by the increased mouth tension would pass by the projectile.

What I think I will do is use a tip Fordtrucks gave me to yank 1 projectile to start with. I will mic it up to see. if it has dropped down significantly in size then ill yank all 25 of them and here is why:

This is already a massive learning lesson for me since we are now talking about resizing 770 brass 70 of them with primers in them already. If I come away from this losing only 25 projectiles then at the price I bought them this is a $6 life lesson, no reason to add the cost of primers and powder to the list of losses.

2. Because I was feeling a bit down on myself I went and loaded 5 rounds properly. I have them mic up at OAL 3.328 just a little under the Nosler test spec with no crimp and they will be my 5 test rounds. They are chambering up tight which I hate but ill reform the shoulder on the next 20 I do a little lower so they chamber the way I like.

I will keep this updated because the only place I have been able to find other information on this is in forums on .223 Hopefully others dont have to learn the hard way like I did with this.

You should buy a set of Redding Competition Shell Holders. They will allow you to set the amount of shoulder bump easily and without complicated tinkering.

[Redemption]

Got curious and pulled a projectile out of one. Out of the box the noslers are coming out at .308 as expected. The round pulled from the case is coming out at .301 from where the top of the case mouth met the projectile to down to the top of the boat tail.

My less than expert opinion is that since we are talking about about .007 Im pretty sure that if there was any excessive pressure to be had it would blow by but obviously they would shoot terribly. Im not going to bother. I am going to pull the projectiles, resize and write it off as a lesson well learned. Obviously in this situation a puller is a moot point, those projectiles are wreaked.



Anyone have any idea how much expansion takes place from the breach to the muzzle? if the ID of my cases are coming in at .304 are my projectiles going to stretch the case to meet its diameter or is my case mouth going to compress the projectile to meet its ID? The 5 I did seated very easily.

[Fordtrucks]

The projectile streches out the brass, I have resized primed cases by running them through the die without the neck expander, with no I'll effects. I think ur good to go with ur second set bud.

[LynnJr]

Lynn, he pulled the expander stem and ran them back through the sizer with bullets already seated.

PacRat
I had a tough time trying to grasp the post for some reason last night and couldn't delete my post.

[John Browning]

You can get a body die to bump the shoulder back without messing with the bullet and neck. You wouldn't have to pull them in that case.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/418978/redding-body-die-30-06-springfield

[ptmn]

I would not place any loaded cartridge back in a sizing die. True, there is nothing touching the primer when in a modern reloading press, but you never know if the torque on the case is going to set off a sensitive primer by some odd freakish occurrence.

Should some odd freakish occurrence happen while torqueing a live loaded cartridge in a reloading press, I'm sure the results of the cartridge detonating in your reloading press would be deadly. Highly unlikely occurrence, but at the same time, not one that I would want to risk

[FISHNFRANK]

Suggestions

When you're new at rifle reloading I would:
1) absolutely buy an electronic caliper gauge for measuring the OAL and the case length. I use an RCBS
2) try to stay initially close to factory specs. Imitate a round you like, OAL wise, FPS, etc. later you can start to branch out.
3) full length resize every round. Some guys just neck size but being a hunter I want to make sure the round chambers every time
4) read a copy of the ABC's of Reloading rifle section, follow it. Along with a good reloading manual like Barnes or Nosler or using their websites it should give you everything you need.
5) buy good dies like Redding or RCBS etc. I use Lee's for handguns but found them very subpar for more exacting work like rifle rounds. Follow the instructions closely

Toss those rounds you made. Buy a puller (they're very cheap) and dispose of them properly

Frank

[Redemption]

No worries. I dont think my question was a standard one

PacRat
I had a tough time trying to grasp the post for some reason last night and couldn't delete my post.

I may do that eventually.

You can get a body die to bump the shoulder back without messing with the bullet and neck. You wouldn't have to pull them in that case.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/418...06-springfield

I agree with your statement in that it would be a freakish occurrence and it would be deadly or at least life altering. I came to terms with my mortality long ago, life is about risk assessment not risk avoidance for me. It wont be a regular practice for me.

I would not place any loaded cartridge back in a sizing die. True, there is nothing touching the primer when in a modern reloading press, but you never know if the torque on the case is going to set off a sensitive primer by some odd freakish occurrence.

Should some odd freakish occurrence happen while torqueing a live loaded cartridge in a reloading press, I'm sure the results of the cartridge detonating in your reloading press would be deadly. Highly unlikely occurrence, but at the same time, not one that I would want to risk

I already own both a digital and two manual calipers, and a background in machining. My intention was to full size resize these cases, I mucked that up, its a lesson learned. Nothing personal on this particular note but I am not going to use ABC's I use a lyman manual, and as stated prior I was using the Nosler site for load information. I already determined I was going to take down those 25 rounds.

Out of curiosity based on what did you find Lee dies to be subpar for reloading rifle?

Suggestions

When you're new at rifle reloading I would:
1) absolutely buy an electronic caliper gauge for measuring the OAL and the case length. I use an RCBS
2) try to stay initially close to factory specs. Imitate a round you like, OAL wise, FPS, etc. later you can start to branch out.
3) full length resize every round. Some guys just neck size but being a hunter I want to make sure the round chambers every time
4) read a copy of the ABC's of Reloading rifle section, follow it. Along with a good reloading manual like Barnes or Nosler or using their websites it should give you everything you need.
5) buy good dies like Redding or RCBS etc. I use Lee's for handguns but found them very subpar for more exacting work like rifle rounds. Follow the instructions closely

Toss those rounds you made. Buy a puller (they're very cheap) and dispose of them properly

Frank

[pacrat]

PacRat
I had a tough time trying to grasp the post for some reason last night and couldn't delete my post.

Understood, late nights and old eyes miss things on my part. BTDT.

Redemption said

I already own both a digital and two manual calipers, and a background in machining. My intention was to full size resize these cases, I mucked that up, its a lesson learned. Nothing personal on this particular note but I am not going to use ABC's I use a lyman manual, and as stated prior I was using the Nosler site for load information. I already determined I was going to take down those 25 rounds.

Personally, I wouldn't bother. You are not going to have pressure issues. And what are you realistically going to do with 25 undersized bullets after you pull em. I would just shoot them as is to fireform your cases to your chamber. You already know accuracyy is gonna be crap at best from them.

Everybody makes rookie mistakes when they are rookies. It is a learning experience. You learned from it and got off cheap. When a lot of us old guys got started, back when dinos roamed the earth. All we had were a few manuals, and some gun magazines to reference, it was a tougher learning curve.

gotta go before I rehash the barefooted uphill both ways in the snow to school story.

[Redemption]

lol Yeah actually I think for the cost of the powder and primers it is worth it to fire form them you are right. Ill shoot em. Plus Ill be able to say hey, rifle... didnt blow up =)

On a side note I am having a terrible time trying to get these case shoulders to reform. I readjusted the dies so I would have plenty of cam over action, still didnt work. Did a rinse repeat with this several times to no avail....

What gives?

My dies were picked up used, any chance the shoulder area is just wore out?

Personally, I wouldn't bother. You are not going to have pressure issues. And what are you realistically going to do with 25 undersized bullets after you pull em. I would just shoot them as is to fireform your cases to your chamber. You already know accuracyy is gonna be crap at best from them.

Everybody makes rookie mistakes when they are rookies. It is a learning experience. You learned from it and got off cheap. When a lot of us old guys got started, back when dinos roamed the earth. All we had were a few manuals, and some gun magazines to reference, it was a tougher learning curve.

gotta go before I rehash the barefooted uphill both ways in the snow to school story.

[J-cat]

No. It could be your chamber is tight and your die too big. What brand die?

[Redemption]

Lee, the 2 die kit in the round plastic container.

I was looking at a bunch of the brass and I started to notice a trend. The forming marks on the case mouths seem to end just a bit above the begining of the shoulder On many of them try as I might I can not get the die to come down far enough to make it all the way to the shoulder, would that be the result of an OS die or an over sized shell holder?

The depth on the shell holder is showing 0.1265

No. It could be your chamber is tight and your die too big. What brand die?

[fatfreadiescat]

Did the same thing by accident with 9mm, ran them through sizing die instead of factory crimp.
Bullets tumbled at 25 yards and made the coolest keyhole target.
Would have looked great on an x-ray.

[LynnJr]

Redemption
You can't wear dies out.

Take an empty case and see if it will chamber without a bullet primer or powder. Keep doing this until you find a case that won't fit.
Now put some Imperial Sizing Die Wax on your thumb and forefinger and lube the entire case.
Once that is done roll a cotton tipped applicator or Q-tip in the sizing die wax and run it inside of the neck on that case.
Now run the ram on your press all the way up and screw your die down until it touches then back it off one full revolution. Do not lock the die down yet.
Size your piece of brass and then chamber it. If it doesn't fit give the die half a turn and run it through the die. If it doesn't fit now go in 1/4 turn increments. If you reach a point were you think the ram and die can't go any further you might have to sand the top surface of your shellholder with 80 grit sandpaper. This will allow the press to push the brass further into the die.
Once that tight fitting piece of brass chambers easily lock down the die.

If you do need to sand the shellholder go in a figure eight pattern so you get the entire top of the shellholder not just one edge.
I cover the top of the shellholder with magic marker to make sure I am getting the entire surface sanded.
Nothing wrong with Lee dies but the collet type dies need to be adjusted right are you don't get enough grip on the bullet.
If you want to pull those bullets just use some rose clippers to grasp the bullet and lower the ram. You can get a 5 gallon bucket and throw all of your junk brass and bullets in it. When scrap prices go up again cash it in.