30-06 Reloading issue

[Redemption]

Ive been Working doing 45 acp for a bit but just started reloading 30-06. Been looking around for an answer to this for an hour or two with very little luck (mostly because no one else would be dumb enough to make this series of mistake)

I went through and processed about 800 30-06 brass and just did my first 25 tonight. I do not have a case length gauge but got my brass trimmed properly. finished up my first 25 and went to chamber up a couple in the rifle to see how they would do. I was having a real hard time getting the bolt into place and after a bit of research I realized that I had not reformed the step down in the neck enough...

Being curious like I am I ran a couple through my sizing die with the decapper removed (I dont have a bullet puller so I cant dismount them anyway) and resized the neck down to where they chamber fine.

Now there is still a healthy ridge from the case mouth to the projectile, the OD of the case mouth does not mic up smaller that any of the ones I have not reloaded yet.

What do you guys think is the possibility of projectile deformation or excessive pressures in this situation?

[baih777]

go buy a bullet puller. safest

[Redemption]

Chances are if these rounds are unsafe I will just tuck em in a corner until I have enough 'mistakes' sitting in a box to justify a puller.

But That doesnt really answer my question here. I know there are a lot of variables and we really dont know, we often air on the side of caution but I am genuinely curious as to if this is a problem.

I know from looking on another forum that people have (in .223) purchased Greek ammunition that was not gauged properly for their rifles, in their case they milled out the mouth sizing portion of the die an then were able to bump back the neck enough to chamber and fire properly.

Safest to pull apart, and dangerous to fire are two different things I think, and it is with the later specifically that I need to know.

go buy a bullet puller. safest

[Fordtrucks]

Well they do make shoulder bump dies but im assuming u were trying to fix ur problem with what u had. So here goes my answer.

As far as bullet deformation I would say prolly not enough to care. First of all these are ur first set so im assuming they are all practice loads so extreme accuracy is unimportant, and shouldn't be expected i would think. So as far as that goes I would say ur fine.

NOW my REALY answer lol. Ok so the question really is "are they safe to shoot and I won't blow myself up".
Ahhh well then to answer that we all first need some more info. IE; what's ur powder charge... Type and amount. Also what projectile... Brand and wieght. Ummm how about setting depth and overall length. What firearm is it going into.
I think with that info we can get a good picture if ur good to go. Some may need more info.

But I think if u have a relatively low charge of powder, relatively long OAL and fired in most modern bolties u are prolly good to go.

When u resized them the second time did it feel really hard like the necks were really getting pinched?

My guess is that most likely i caused a condition similar to a factory crimp but all the way down the neck and to the edge of the shoulder.

Post a pic so we can see what it looks like.

Without a headspace gauge or shoulder bump gauge set u should always start with setting the ful length sizing due to touch the shell holder at the top of the ram stroke, then turn it a 1/8 to 1/4 turn more. This is were the cam-over takes effect. This of course is for non-carbide dies. If u do this with pistol carbide dies the carbide insert could crack, but for most rifle sets this is the rule. Then u can play with backing it out later to adjust for exsessive shoulder bump.

[Redemption]

Hey Ford!

55-55.2 grains of Hornady Superformance (no variation there) I didnt do a throw for any of these, hand weighed every one of them) Nosler load data says 53-58 grain spread with that powder, 175grain Nosler HPBT custom comp hollow point blems. Load data shows the tests as a max OAL of 3.330 but I loaded them shorter for my rifle at 3.175.5. OAL case lenth is 2.478

Case mouth Diameter is coming out at 0.3255

Rifle is a cherry Rem 700 ADL Bone stock

There is no noticable deformation on the mouth or bullet, doesnt look like its been squeezed or anything like that. They were a little harder to run in than without a projectile but not by much.

Their certainly not shouting to me that their going to put me on the Darwin awards list at least, and there is a healthy ridge between the mouth and the projectile.

Well they do make shoulder bump dies but im assuming u were trying to fix ur problem with what u had. So here goes my answer.

As far as bullet deformation I would say prolly not enough to care. First of all these are ur first set so im assuming they are all practice loads so extreme accuracy is unimportant, and shouldn't be expected i would think. So as far as that goes I would say ur fine.

NOW my REALY answer lol. Ok so the question really is "are they safe to shoot and I won't blow myself up".
Ahhh well then to answer that we all first need some more info. IE; what's ur powder charge... Type and amount. Also what projectile... Brand and wieght. Ummm how about setting depth and overall length. What firearm is it going into.
I think with that info we can get a good picture if ur good to go. Some may need more info.

But I think if u have a relatively low charge of powder, relatively long OAL and fired in most modern bolties u are prolly good to go.

When u resized them the second time did it feel really hard like the necks were really getting pinched?

My guess is that most likely i caused a condition similar to a factory crimp but all the way down the neck and to the edge of the shoulder.

Post a pic so we can see what it looks like.

[Fordtrucks]

Hey bro I see u have been busy. Lol

Ok so that info helps a bunch.
( first and foremost right, these are only my experiences and what I have seen in my specific case. YMMV and the absolute safest thing is to pull the bullets lol) now that said;

I have burned a bunch of superformance in 30-06 and my experiance is that the book numbers have been a little conservative in my guns. Also superformance is designed to produce lower pressures and high velocities.
So now that we know ur on the low side of powder and mid bullet weights we get to the seating part.
That's like crazy deep. I seat all my 30-06 to mag length or even greater some times, in most cases it's 3.300, I have one rifle i 3.250. I don't know what to say for that.

I mean the real question is about bullet tension and will it raise the pressure to dangerous levles.

If you would have loaded to 3.300 I would see no reason to go ahead and shoot, you should be good. Even at 3.250 go ahead, but at 3.175 that just too much for me to say ur good. That bullet must have a huge gap to jump into the lands. Also there is lots more bullet bearing surface that has to get pushed through the neck. That could cause u a spike in pressure enough to cause u problems.

My advice is remeasure the OAL and if Indeed 3.175. Just put them aside, it's not worth the risk. If 3.250 or greater then ur a go.

Again just my oppinion and the safest thing is pull'em.

U can pm me with further questions if like.

Just curious, why so short? Won't fit in mag?

[LynnJr]

nt.

[Fordtrucks]

Just measured some necks on mine loaded rounds and I get .3330 but that varies by brass brand.

They don't look overly short from the pic.

[Redemption]

At the time my rationale was that the projectile was smacking into the lands, so I adjusted them back to factory specs, Thats the OAL of all of my factory rounds. When that failed to solve the issue and the brass OAL was right I realized Id failed to size the shoulder properly on every single one so I get to run all 800 through the die once more

I know volume plays a part and pressure may increase by setting the projectile further back but do you think that given it is factory lenths it will really result in that much of a difference?

Hey bro I see u have been busy. Lol

Ok so that info helps a bunch.
( first and foremost right, these are only my experiences and what I have seen in my specific case. YMMV and the absolute safest thing is to pull the bullets lol) now that said;

I have burned a bunch of superformance in 30-06 and my experiance is that the book numbers have been a little conservative in my guns. Also superformance is designed to produce lower pressures and high velocities.
So now that we know ur on the low side of powder and mid bullet weights we get to the seating part.
That's like crazy deep. I seat all my 30-06 to mag length or even greater some times, in most cases it's 3.300, I have one rifle i 3.250. I don't know what to say for that.

I mean the real question is about bullet tension and will it raise the pressure to dangerous levles.

If you would have loaded to 3.300 I would see no reason to go ahead and shoot, you should be good. Even at 3.250 go ahead, but at 3.175 that just too much for me to say ur good. That bullet must have a huge gap to jump into the lands. Also there is lots more bullet bearing surface that has to get pushed through the neck. That could cause u a spike in pressure enough to cause u problems.

My advice is remeasure the OAL and if Indeed 3.175. Just put them aside, it's not worth the risk. If 3.250 or greater then ur a go.

Again just my oppinion and the safest thing is pull'em.

U can pm me with further questions if like.

Just curious, why so short? Won't fit in mag?

[pacrat]

I went through and processed about 800 30-06 brass and just did my first 25 tonight. I do not have a case length gauge but got my brass trimmed properly. finished up my first 25 and went to chamber up a couple in the rifle to see how they would do. I was having a real hard time getting the bolt into place and after a bit of research I realized that I had not reformed the step down in the neck enough...

You processed 800 cases. So I'm guessing these were NOT fireformed in your rifle. Is that a safe guess?

If so, the most likely suspect of the tough bolt closing symptom is that the shoulder wasn't set back enough in the sizing operation for your chamber.

I wouldn't Re-FL size loaded bottleneck rifle ammo. Not because of pressure related safety factors. But because of the likelyhood of wedging the case neck into the die with a bullet in it. Then ripping the extractor groove off of a case getting it back out of the die. Then you've got a different mess to deal with.

Suggest you adjust your sizer like Fordtrucks said. Give them "ALL" a solid full lenght sizing.

Without a headspace gauge or shoulder bump gauge set u should always start with setting the ful length sizing due to touch the shell holder at the top of the ram stroke, then turn it a 1/8 to 1/4 turn more.

Don't mess around with limiting shoulder setback or neck sizing unless they are previously fireformed in your rifles chamber.

As to safety from KaBooms on the 25 you have loaded. I don't see an issue. Squeezing them after the fact will not effect pressure to any extent as long as the bullets aren't jammed into the rifling lands. Yours are plenty short enough to avoid that.

With a bolt gun like a 700. If the bolt will close, the bullet isn't jammed into the rifling, and the necks are short enough that they don't wedge into the throat, acting as a collet holding the bullet in the neck. You are GTG safety wise. As long as you followed proper load data.

I prefer a "snug" bolt turn going into battery.

JM2c

[pacrat]

Your picture shows the neck of your case rubbing very hard.The two things that pop right up are thick necks on your brass or your not using 0.308 diameter bullets.
A 3rd cause would be using a bushing die with a steel bushing and not enough lubricant.

Lynn, he pulled the expander stem and ran them back through the sizer with bullets already seated.

[Redemption]

I basically screwed up on the resize step and didnt set the die deep enough to size the shoulder. Their not fireformed to my rifle, no. Their actually a mix of mil and non mil headstamp.

The remaining 775 brass will just go back through the sizing die. Unless Fordtrucks wants to be a pal and loan me his puller for 10 min since he lives close then I will either fire or box these rounds until later on when I feel like researching and buying a puller.

You processed 800 cases. So I'm guessing these were NOT fireformed in your rifle. Is that a safe guess?

If so, the most likely suspect of the tough bolt closing symptom is that the shoulder wasn't set back enough in the sizing operation for your chamber.

I wouldn't Re-FL size loaded bottleneck rifle ammo. Not because of pressure related safety factors. But because of the likelyhood of wedging the case neck into the die with a bullet in it. Then ripping the extractor groove off of a case getting it back out of the die. Then you've got a different mess to deal with.

Suggest you adjust your sizer like Fordtrucks said. Give them "ALL" a solid full lenght sizing.



Don't mess around with limiting shoulder setback or neck sizing unless they are previously fireformed in your rifles chamber.

As to safety from KaBooms on the 25 you have loaded. I don't see an issue. Squeezing them after the fact will not effect pressure to any extent as long as the bullets aren't jammed into the rifling lands. Yours are plenty short enough to avoid that.

With a bolt gun like a 700. If the bolt will close, the bullet isn't jammed into the rifling, and the necks are short enough that they don't wedge into the throat, acting as a collet holding the bullet in the neck. You are GTG safety wise. As long as you followed proper load data.

I prefer a "snug" bolt turn going into battery.

JM2c

[Fordtrucks]

U can borrow the puller anytime u want bro.

As long as u return it promptly.... Use that thing ALOT!! Ahahahahahahahah.

[J-cat]

Whenever you run a loaded round through a standard FL die, you resize the bullet to whatever the neck inner diameter would have been empty. In the case of the .30 cals, the die sizes the neck OD to .328" from a loaded diameter of .332-.338" or so. That means your .308" bullet is now a .298" bullet depending on neck wall thickness.

They are no good at this point.

[Redemption]

Well if the projectile being undersize is the only concern here then I can just expect poor performance, not a Darwin award winning level explosion, life ending bolt sticking out of my forehead scenario.

Whenever you run a loaded round through a standard FL die, you resize the bullet to whatever the neck inner diameter would have been empty. In the case of the .30 cals, the die sizes the neck OD to .328" from a loaded diameter of .332-.338" or so. That means your .308" bullet is now a .298" bullet depending on neck wall thickness.

They are no good at this point.