Front Sight?

[Clee]

Thunder Ranch, Oregon is just across the border is another respected training school.

http://www.thunderranchinc.com/

The only problem with thunder ranch is they require non lead ammo. That gets expensive fast if you need 1000 rounds or so.

[AAShooter]

The only problem with thunder ranch is they require non lead ammo. That gets expensive fast if you need 1000 rounds or so.

True, I forgot about that.

[LCU1670]

Been going to FS for years, will be there again in a few weeks. My wife and I have taken over 30 classes each since we joined. We like the instructors and the people (students) we meet there. Because of this, my wife really likes going to FS, which makes it easy for me to go! I don't know if its the best training around, but its still great. Having to stay in Parump is a bit of a pain (30 minute drive) but its managable. Classes are a lot larger than when we first joined, but they seem to do a good job coordinating it, especially with people of differing skill levels. When we take classes the vast majority of the people really like the classes, instructors and instruction, and are very happy on graduation day. I do meet a few disgruntled students now and then, but they tend to be the know it alls that want to show how much they know and maybe argue with the instructors. I found when you take any instruction its best to have an open mind and then take out the bits and pieces that you think will work best for you. My wife and I both retired from the military so we have had a bit of instruction in the past, so were not newbes. We have also taken courses other places as well. We gravitate back to FS, and always have a great time there. If you go with an open mind, and willingness to learn, you will have a great time as well!!

[Sturnovik]

True, I forgot about that.

Ammo aside, I have family up there! And it looks like they got lots of classes and room clearing stuff. Looks pretty damn awesome actually, I may just take a look at them!

[AAShooter]

Ammo aside, I have family up there! And it looks like they got lots of classes and room clearing stuff. Looks pretty damn awesome actually, I may just take a look at them!

Clint Smith is good folk. Just realize his classes book up early.

[Sturnovik]

Sounds good, I'll get on booking that stuff!

[Nachoman]

I agree with your post. Many SF and SOF guys get shot in training and die. If some civilian poser (like myself and most others on this board) has the arrogance to think they have the same skill as those guys, they need to get their head kicked in. I would want to train as close to reality as I can without endangering others. So that means no guy standing next to my target. Mistakes happen. I saw this at a Paul Howe AAR on another forum:

I agree, not to mention... it's one thing for elite teams to do it, whereas in the TR video there was a guy who couldn't even handle a basic malfunction shooting the target next to that camera man. It looked like a basic level class, not exactly the time to be shooting at live targets.

[AAShooter]

One thing we haven't really discussed here is the goals of your training and what specific skills you are hoping to develop. What are you hoping to get out of the training. Knowing this will help you select the classes you take next as well as guide your practice. This is very individual and determines what is a good match for you. It is also dynamic and changes over time.

Although we have discussed a lot of great training alternatives here, it is kind of like asking someone to select your perfect spouse. Even well-qualified, well-respected trainers may be the wrong choice for you. Your trainer and those you train with may be biased but often can provide great feedback on what skills you need to further develop. Finally, my wisest piece of advice is go train. Don't get stuck in analysis paralysis trying select the perfect class . . . perfect is the worst enemy of good.

One of Clee's comments reminded me of this important aspect. Please excuse the rant.

[Sturnovik]

One thing we haven't really discussed here is the goals of your training and what specific skills you are hoping to develop. What are you hoping to get out of the training. Knowing this will help you select the classes you take next as well as guide your practice. This is very individual and determines what is a good match for you. It is also dynamic and changes over time.

Although we have discussed a lot of great training alternatives here, it is kind of like asking someone to select your perfect spouse. Even well-qualified, well-respected trainers may be the wrong choice for you. Your trainer and those you train with may be biased but often can provide great feedback on what skills you need to further develop. Finally, my wisest piece of advice is go train. Don't get stuck in analysis paralysis trying select the perfect class . . . perfect is the worst enemy of good.

One of Clee's comments reminded me of this important aspect. Please excuse the rant.

By all means, you have a valid point. I've taken a course or two and it was handgun basics and I had shot prior to that for many years but I'm hoping to practice anything I can get out of a course. Being able to do controlled pairs (doubletap, or w/e the kids are calling it these days), shooting on the move, room clearing (That oregon course has footage online, looks very neat), transistions from rifle to pistol (obviously I'll need to finally pick up a carbine for that), really anything beyond just plinking.

[call-in]

I've never seen someone get ejected out of the windshield of their car from a crash either, but I still wear my seat belt.

Yeah but would you say that all the data (empirical or anecdotal) you've seen about accidents and seatbelts affected your decision?

There are incidents on the internet of the ejector striking the primer and the round going off while someone was cupping the ejection port. His hand was injured. Glock, the largest supplier of pistols to LE in the US has also had reports of this happening, and this is why they specifically tell people who take their classes NOT to do it.For an explosion to do damage it has to be confined. A round going off on the ground near your feet won't hurt you, and you probably won't even know it happened unless you were paying attention to it.

I have seen several rounds detonate when hitting the ground. Although there may be some shrapnel from the case, it is pretty uneventful. I would certainly rather risk that than having an open breech detonation in my cupped hand. Both are rare.

Exactly.

Well, now that I have some data on the consequences of both, I would then certainly NOT try cupping.

Thanks for enlightening me.

Oh, and sorry to the OP for the thread jack.

[Sturnovik]

Haha its not a thread jack, I'm still trying to pick up on what they are describing, I just dont see the point of catching the brass, or maybe I'm misreading on what they are describing. In any case this thread has helped me narrow stuff down!

[locosway]

Haha its not a thread jack, I'm still trying to pick up on what they are describing, I just dont see the point of catching the brass, or maybe I'm misreading on what they are describing. In any case this thread has helped me narrow stuff down!

When they ask you to unload, they teach you to cup your support hand over the ejection port, rotate the pistol 90 degrees right, and run the slide back. You catch the live round in your support hand, and then you close the slide. It sounds fine and cool, but it's dangerous.

[AAShooter]

In case anyone is interested, FS just certified their 13th Handgun Combat Master in their Handgun Combat Master Prep class today. I think that makes 58 total that have accomplished that. There is one other school that does the HCM test.

Needless to say, it is a very difficult test to pass.

[call-in]

In case anyone is interested, FS just certified their 13th Handgun Combat Master in their Handgun Combat Master Prep class today. I think that makes 58 total that have accomplished that. There is one other school that does the HCM test.

Needless to say, it is a very difficult test to pass.

I would love to see those masters duke it out with other experts or trainers using airsoft pistols, kind of like the UFC of gunfights! That would be so awesome.

[AAShooter]

In case anyone is interested, FS just certified their 13th Handgun Combat Master in their Handgun Combat Master Prep class today. I think that makes 58 total that have accomplished that. There is one other school that does the HCM test.

Needless to say, it is a very difficult test to pass.

I should be more precise. Two schools offer the Handgun Combat Master test and they are slightly different. Front Sight modified the test in a number of areas. For example, I think FS uses the standard Front Sight targets. I believe the goal was to be an comparable test.

Chuck Taylor has certified 45 HCMs and Front Sight has certified 13. Both are similar and very difficult tests.

One other comment is the HCM name is sort of misleading for some. It really is trying to test if you are masterful with a "combat handgun", NOT that you are a master at combat using a handgun.