Front Sight?

[Sturnovik]

I have taken one class from Grey Group. Although the instructor was very good the logistics for the classes were a complete mess.

The instructor/class started an hour late. When they arrived, the class worked to set up the range. The range was set up with no chairs so you could stand for two solid days or sit on the ground. The night session was held were no restroom was available. The firing line was set up so we were getting peppered with shot from the shotgun fields next store.

So if that is your idea of high quality training, I can see where FS might not measure up.

Wow....sounds like communication break down with the instructors or they just screwed up, sorry to hear that happened.

[AAShooter]

Wow....sounds like communication break down with the instructors or they just screwed up, sorry to hear that happened.

I also hope it was just one of those bad classes . . . things happen. I have no idea if my experience is representative of all the Grey Group classes but I can only assume that it is not.

[HCz]

I have taken one class from Grey Group. Although the instructor was very good the logistics for the classes were a complete mess.

The instructor/class started an hour late. When they arrived, the class worked to set up the range. The range was set up with no chairs so you could stand for two solid days or sit on the ground. The night session was held were no restroom was available. The firing line was set up so we were getting peppered with shot from the shotgun fields next store.

So if that is your idea of high quality training, I can see where FS might not measure up.

I'm guessing this was the January 2011 class in SoCal?

As for FS, I really don't have good view of them. As someone mentioned, it (maybe) is for first time shooters, but there are plenty more classes taught locally that would do comparable, if not better job. If don't have anything locally then you might want to consider FS, but I'd still encourage to look for some other training schools.

[VictorFranko]

Use your money wisely. We are living in the best time ever for firearm training. Never has the public had access to some many trainers with real world experience, in other words, guys who have participated in two way gun ranges. With so many trainers coming from Delta Force, Navy Seals, Marine Recon or Army Special Forces I question why anyone would ever get their training from a chiropractor/scientologist. Since you are in Nor Cal anyways, you'll have to travel to Front Sight. Why not travel somewhere to get real training from real trainers. Or you can check the training section for training classes closer to home.

This comes from the Green Beret that founded ProfessionalSoldiers.com (a forum for Green Berets) regarding FS:




Grey Group in the past has brought Larry Vickers, Kyle Defoor, Tigerswan, Dave Harrington, Mike Pannone among others to CA. I'd spend my money there.

If you want to travel go look up CSAT, or Spartan Tactical both are in Texas.

[AAShooter]

. . . might want to consider FS, but I'd still encourage to look for some other training schools.

Personally I think FS has some very good training at a variety of levels. Unfortunately, you have to actually prove your shooting skills in the lower classes before you can sign up for the advanced classes. This is frustrating to some and they never get to the advanced class. It is nice when you get to the advanced class because the attendees can shoot and have solid gun handling skills.

That said, I think you are making a mistake to lock onto a single school or instructor if you are serious about our training. Even the instructors at FS have been to other schools and will encourage you to do the same.

[jlbflyboy172]

I was there a month ago. ALL of the instructors had serious backgrounds, almost ALL were multiple versions of military of different types. Some were so credentialed up it was amazing. The first nay sayer at the top of this thread could not be more wrong. The training was top notch and they are completely professional in all aspects. I would not hesitate to recommend their courses to anyone. And yes I bought a lifetime membership and will be attending at least once a year for many years and will bring my wife and children along too for training. Like another poster stated, beware of anyone who talks them down that has not been there. They are badly mistaken and you have to question their motives if they make such strong comments about something they know nothing about.

[HCz]

Personally I think FS has some very good training at a variety of levels. Unfortunately, you have to actually prove your shooting skills in the lower classes before you can sign up for the advanced classes. This is frustrating to some and they never get to the advanced class. It is nice when you get to the advanced class because the attendees can shoot and have solid gun handling skills.

That's the unfortunate situation of being big. It's hard to get indepth look at each student's skills so a system of instruction that is made for the largest attendees.

That said, I think you are making a mistake to lock onto a single school or instructor if you are serious about our training. Even the instructors at FS have been to other schools and will encourage you to do the same.

Grey group is not the only place I take classes from.

[AAShooter]

. . .
Any recommendations?

Oh I'm in Norcal.

Although this is becoming a FS discussion. There are some very good trainers in the Bay Area and near by. I was trying to find a recent thread.

I know TFTT and Grey Group training offer local classes occasionally. I think TFTT mainly offers classes in Sacramento when in California and Grey Group has held classes at Chabot Gun Club. DFtraining in Coursegold does a good job. Louis Awerbuck give classes at Reed's Indoor Range in San Jose/Santa Clara.

Here are some links:

TFTT Training
Grey Group Training
DFT Training
DFT Promo Video
Louis Awerbuck/Yavapai Firearms Academy at Reeds Indoor Range

I know several others were suggested in other threads for being very good local training.

[VictorFranko]

Unfortunately, you have to actually prove your shooting skills in the lower classes before you can sign up for the advanced classes. This is frustrating to some and they never get to the advanced class.

This is a good thing, not bad!
We have all had some form of training where a totally unqualified individual holds a whole class back because they are not qualified to be there. They are only there because they could afford it. Not at Front Sight.

[AAShooter]

. . . Grey group is not the only place I take classes from.

That's great. It sounds like we agree that mixing up your training is a benefit. What other good trainers have you found?


I have found that even a bad class can provide valuable learning.

[HCz]

I'm in SoCal. ITTS, FTA has been two others, as well as some local ones.

I'm hoping I can save up for other classes too, but with the situation being what it is it's becoming more pain in the rear to plan ahead.

[AAShooter]

One of the more interesting impromptu classes was from an instructor at Front Sight that was one of the President's 100. He gave us a 20-30 minute discussion about his mental training and development to reach his high level of performance. He used Lanny Bassham's Mental Management system to improve his shooting. It was very interesting to here his approach, challenges and results.

[AAShooter]

I'm in SoCal. ITTS, FTA has been two others, as well as some local ones.

I'm hoping I can save up for other classes too, but with the situation being what it is it's becoming more pain in the rear to plan ahead.

I have heard good things about ITTS but have not trained with them. Is FTA Bill Murphy's business? I took a class with Bill Murphy and Doug Martin and they did a great job, although I wasn't too impressed with the range we used.

[HCz]

I have heard good things about ITTS but have not trained with them. Is FTA Bill Murphy's business? I took a class with Bill Murphy and Doug Martin and they did a great job, although I wasn't too impressed with the range we used.

Yes.

[AAShooter]

Yes.

Thanks. Yes, they are good folk. Knowledgeable and make it fun.