Front Sight?

[Sturnovik]

When they ask you to unload, they teach you to cup your support hand over the ejection port, rotate the pistol 90 degrees right, and run the slide back. You catch the live round in your support hand, and then you close the slide. It sounds fine and cool, but it's dangerous.

Oh! Ok, thank you for clarifying I thought you meant just catching brass so not to leave a trail or some sort of other covert sense. I see what you mean locosway.

[AAShooter]

Here is a copy of the test I found on the Internet. I am not sure it is 100% accurate. It should be noted this test is not shot from concealment.

Standard Exercises
Single target - 2 shots Thoracic Cavity, each drill performed once.

Facing target 1 meter - 1.0 second (Speed Rock)
Facing target 1 meter - 1.0 second (Step Back)
Facing target 3 meters - 1.0 second
Facing target 7 meters - 1.3 seconds
Facing target 10 meters - 1.8 seconds
Facing target 15 meters - 2.2 seconds (Kneeling optional)
Facing target 25 meters - 2.7 seconds (Kneeling optional)
Facing target 50 meters - 6.0 seconds (Prone optional)

Presentation Evaluation
Single target - 1 shot Thoracic Cavity, each drill performed five times

Facing target 7 meters - 1.0 second
Response left 7 meters - 1.0 second
Response right 7 meters - 1.0 seconds
Response rear 7 meters - 1.2 seconds
Multiple Targets

Targets at 5 meters and spaced 1 meter apart

Two targets - 1.2 second
Three targets - 1.5 seconds
Four targets - 1.8 seconds

Head shots - Ocular Cavity at Close Range - 1 shot per drill
5 meters - 1.0 seconds - perform four times
7 meters - 1.2 seconds - perform five times
Ambidextrous Shooting - Time limit is 6 seconds for semi-auto, 8 seconds for revolvers.

3 targets at 5 meters and spaced 1 meter apart.

Candidate loads three rounds and engages targets two handed, firing one round on each target, emergency reloads, then transfers weapon to support hand and re-engages the three targets firing one round per target.

Hostage Situation - Time limit 1.2 seconds.

Partial head shots - Target at 7 meters, one shot per drill performed 5 times with hostage taker to the left of the hostage head. Drill repeats 5 times for taker on the right side of the hostage head.
Target at Odd Angles - Targets at 7 meters and 60% obscured by cover, one shot per drill, perform 5 times with target to the left side of cover and 5 times to the right side of cover.

NOTE: AN ADDITIONAL -10 points each time you hit the hostage head.

You can only have a -40 to get the 90% required for Combat Master Award. Normally 70% is all that is needed for a graduate certificate, but the Combat Master Prep requires a Distinguished Graduate (90%) for award.

Malfunction and weapon handling drills are done 5 times each.

For each drill improperly performed or performed over the time limit, 5 points are deducted from your shooting score.

Tactical Reload - 4.0 seconds
Emergency Reload - 1.5 seconds
Type 1 malfunction (Empty Chamber) - 1.0 second
Type 2 malfunction (Brass high) - 1.0 second
Type 3 malfunction (Double feed) - 4.0 seconds

[QQQ]

Any of you guys been to it in recent years? I've been thinking about doing a pistol course, I dont know to many things local though. I'm thinking about paying for Front Sight since I just keep hearing good things about it, but it is alot of money (I'm sure its worth it though).

I heard about stone cobra tactical but haven't heard much lately or actually seen there website online. I'd like to go beyond basics since I've been shooting a while and saw some courses but alot are out of state.

Any recommendations?

Oh I'm in Norcal.

You can likely get not only the class, but a full membership for a lot less than the advertised FS price.

I took a 4-day course there. I have no real means of comparison since it's the only serious handgun course I've taken. However, as a beginner, I did feel that my skills improved significantly by taking the course. I can't speak for you, since it sounds like you've been shooting for a while.

[AAShooter]

You can probably pick up a course certificate to take your first course for $ 50 to $250, depending on the class, if you poke around a bit.

[LEO]

When they ask you to unload, they teach you to cup your support hand over the ejection port, rotate the pistol 90 degrees right, and run the slide back. You catch the live round in your support hand, and then you close the slide. It sounds fine and cool, but it's dangerous.

We know it is dangerous to train with Firearms .
Did You know some people shoot themselves while holstering
their Handgun? I think this happens more often and we still use
a Holster. We just have to try to be as safe as possible and this post
will make Me be extra careful when I try to unload my Handgun
using this method .

[AAShooter]

We know it is dangerous to train with Firearms .
Did You know some people shoot themselves while holstering
their Handgun? I think this happens more often and we still use
a Holster. We just have to try to be as safe as possible and this post
will make Me be extra careful when I try to unload my Handgun
using this method .

They shoot themselves without holsters too.

http://www.wdbj7.com/news/wtvr-father-kills-self-grocery-store-20111114,0,6180044.story

[LEO]

Yes, I read about this story , but I was thinking about accidents while training , most
classes require a holster. I was sorry to hear about this story.

[ronson]

The only complaint was the hotels are 30 minutes away from class and you need to be at class at 6:30 AM sharp.

That's not actually accurate. Every day but the first day of of your 1 or 2 or 4 day class, the gates open at 7:30 and class starts at 8:00.

On the first day, you have to go through check-in and weapons inspection, many people pick up rental gear, buy ammo at the shop, etc. Class starts at 8:00, but they open the gate at 6:30 if you have a lot to do. I usually roll in at 7:15 on day 1 and am always sitting in the classroom early.

They used to have some epic long lines at check in (they frequently have 600+ people on a weekend), but just this fall have started using a faster check in process with laptops, ipads etc. The line moves a lot faster now.

[Molby242]

A relative recently got some discounted vouchers so it looks like i'll be headed down soon. From pictures and some brief reviews i've read, is it true you have to use "weaver" stance only? Someone mentioned you can object, but Weaver is the primary stance taught and isosceles is frowned upon...

I'm not asking to get into the debate of which stance is better, I'm just trying to gauge how "by the book" the instructors are or if they're flexible with shooters to some extent. I've always found myself to be a proponent to "if it works for you, by all means use it" type of attitude unless the action of what the shooter is doing will cause serious harm to himself or others, or is just plain wrong.

[barrym66]

From pictures and some brief reviews i've read, is it true you have to use "weaver" stance only? Someone mentioned you can object, but Weaver is the primary stance taught and isosceles is frowned upon...

I'm not asking to get into the debate of which stance is better, I'm just trying to gauge how "by the book" the instructors are or if they're flexible with shooters to some extent. I've always found myself to be a proponent to "if it works for you, by all means use it" type of attitude unless the action of what the shooter is doing will cause serious harm to himself or others, or is just plain wrong.

I went through this on my first class as well, having been previously trained the full Isosceles stance.

What they suggest - and I now agree with - is just try it their way (which is a "modified Weaver"). It's not an "our way or the highway" situation, but as the class is targeted at self defense and not target shooting, Weaver provides a more stable position to resist an attacker that is trying to push you or grab your gun.

If you don't like it, change back to your old stance when you get home. I tend to fall back on my old stance after shooting a few matches and I always hear about it when I go back to FS. But it's not a big deal, they are clear about explaining why Weaver is preferred.

[locosway]

I went through this on my first class as well, having been previously trained the full Isosceles stance.

What they suggest - and I now agree with - is just try it their way (which is a "modified Weaver"). It's not an "our way or the highway" situation, but as the class is targeted at self defense and not target shooting, Weaver provides a more stable position to resist an attacker that is trying to push you or grab your gun.

If you don't like it, change back to your old stance when you get home. I tend to fall back on my old stance after shooting a few matches and I always hear about it when I go back to FS. But it's not a big deal, they are clear about explaining why Weaver is preferred.

They also explain where the Weaver stance came from, but it's not correct. It doesn't match up with the interviews Jack Weaver has given over the years. I think in their minds they've made up some reason why Weaver is better, without really researching the two stances and where they benefit.

You can't move as fast in a weaver stance, and your range of motion is limited. If someone is trying to take my gun, I'm not going to stand there and resist them, I'm going to move and move fast, and I'll be shooting on the move, which is something Iso excels at obviously.

[AAShooter]

There is not reason why one can't master both. They are just tools. It is hard to stay in either stance when moving.

Interestingly enough, it is my understanding that the Isosceles does not seem to hold up well in the HCM test. Perhaps because weaver shooters are more likely to take it.

[AAShooter]

There is not reason why one can't master both. They are just tools. It is hard to stay in either stance when moving.

Interestingly enough, it is my understanding that the Isosceles does not seem to hold up well in the HCM test. Perhaps because weaver shooters are more likely to take it.

[BNW]

If you're in Nor Cal and looking for pistol instruction, this guy ( www.bftraining.com ) is offering private lessons at a pretty reasonable rate. He's a former ranger and black water guy. At first I was unsure about his credentials, but I asked around about him, and I think he's legit

[tahoetime]

What is the 'HCM test'?

Thanks

There is not reason why one can't master both. They are just tools. It is hard to stay in either stance when moving.

Interestingly enough, it is my understanding that the Isosceles does not seem to hold up well in the HCM test. Perhaps because weaver shooters are more likely to take it.