Disapointed with Livermore Range RO's

[ghettojet]

Okay, if that's the way you feel...personally I would appreciate someone informing me of an infraction that I may not know about....say something like, "excuse me, but did you know your left brake light isn't working". It could save me some money

The one exception to my rule of "minding your own business".... would have to be safety violations. If you ever see me on the road/range/track/where ever being unsafe, I feel that something SHOULD be said and promptly.


but back on topic. I'm not a fan of people with the attitude "do as I say, not as I do"....... The range officers should be leading by example and be, by far the most safety concious person on the range- I mean I am pretty sure thats what they are there for.

[M1A Rifleman]

Is there a reason you had to be obnoxious in your response rather just saying "Thanks for the information?" Even if the guy has his info wrong, he was trying to look out for you. No reason to bust his balls for this, and if anything, it is a good opportunity to educate him on the law.

Or do you think that shooters in California should all just mind their own business and not try to help each other?

I want to enjoy myself and not have a want-to-be know-it-all in my face. People need to mind their own. So, yea, I get ticked when someone univited is in my face.

[M1A Rifleman]

So is it 'racist' that you identified him by race?

I wouldn't bother complaining, I'd just not go back.

The guy making the remarks about race, is white, like me. The asian guy was not present during the discussions about race, maybe he was off educating himself about RAW after running into me.

I have not made up my mind about complaining to the range. I was somewhat hopefull either reps from the range would read this, or better yet the two RO's that need further training.

[AAShooter]

. . . I was somewhat hopefull either reps from the range would read this, or better yet the two RO's that need further training.

Seems optimistic. I hope it works for you.

[big red]

Sounds like more than a few things might be wrong. staff who are not up to speed on identifying illegal weapons, a range officer who is a bully, staff breaking their own rules, and creating a bad atmosphere on the range which is always dangerous not only to the pissed off shooter but to the rest of the shooters. Nothing worse than a range officer picking a confrontation on the firing line and not taking the issue behind the line and out of range of the rest of the shooters. It is very simple for the range to post the rules in huge black letters on a poster board that each shooter can read as they walk past on the way to the range. At the bottom simply say in red letters that a violation will get you booted from the range, range officers included. range officers should lead by example and not by mouth.

[rjdesco]

Reply to comments regarding LPRG

First thank you for the comments and suggestions regarding the RSO duties at LPRG. Now lets take a minute to look at your comments ..... all of you.

1. Rather than ***** on this web site, come forward and state your name and e mail so we can address your complaints individually.
2. If anyone thinks that the RSO duties are easy and that we deal with reasonable people who actually have brought some measure of horse sense to the range with them..... your wrong.
3. To give you a simple idea of what we RSO's see on a daily basis think this: People shoot like they drive. Now look around at the people driving and see what we deal with.
4. Have any of you trained, papered, know what your doing shooters out there had a gun pointed at you and had the person say " it's not loaded"?
5. As for the gun in or out of the case during a cease fire. This has been a range rule forever. It's not going to change because your upset with it. Suck it up or find another range. May I suggest Manteca. It's a place that's a wreck waiting to happen, a free for all, might be your cup of tea.
6. The reason that we on the Mic say " may I have your attention please- everyone look at me is because your too busy shooting the **** to listen to range commands, when you are involved in a screw up because there's no such thing as an accident according to YOUR military you will say I didn't hear that command - I wonder why. Again find another less safety oriented place to shoot!
7. We are ALL volunteers, we do not get paid. We are there so YOU have a place to legally shoot that thing you shoot. So abide by the rules or leave!
8. I would be more than happy to discuss any of these rules with you strait up face to face if you have the courage to defend your position.
9. The rules are posted in several places as you come in to the office area. Ask yourself ....... have I read those rules before I acted like a fool on this discussion page!
10. the rules are for EVERYONE'S safety, put in place so YOU and everyone else is doing the same thing at the same time and not what you DAMN WELL PLEASE WHEN YOU DECIDE.

I am the guy that's full of himself and I am a certified RSO plus I also am a LPRG Board Member so you tickled the fancy of the right guy. Come up some Sunday and I'll let you run the show just so you can see how easy it really is, if you have the good ol American guts to take me up on it that is.
The name is Rich Descoteaux and I'll be glad to talk to anyone with a problem that does not hide behind a website using some name other than their own.

[mes227]

7. We are ALL volunteers, we do not get paid. We are there so YOU have a place to legally shoot that thing you shoot. So abide by the rules or leave!

This does not give ROs permission to be rude, arrogant, racist or dangerous.

[Nachoman]

This does not give ROs permission to be rude, arrogant, racist or dangerous.

What's funny is that Rich didn't even address the complaints the OP had of Rich, namely him acting like an *** and not following his own range rules. And of course, Rich's post merely confirmed that first part of that complaint...

If Rich chooses to listen, you'll find that respect is given when respect is earned. Treat customers with respect, and they will reciprocate in kind. You can easily get the same message across without being condescending or rude. Failure to do so is a fault of yourself, not of the customer. I could elaborate on how your post is full of the pompous bravado that seems prevelant among first time posters who have their ego bruised, but i won't. Instead, just remember that we are judged on how we communicate, both written and verbal.

[Dave A]

As stated by another poster, every range has rules and usually for a good reason. I shoot at Lincoln, CA at the Dillman range and am a member there. The RO's at this range are paid for their time, but they are not going to get rich doing it.

One longer termed member, an RO and a former member of the range committee told me that every rule has been put in place either for general safety reasons, or because someone had an accidental discharge. This is the reason why all firearms have to be out of the case, mag out, or cylinder open and a chamber flag in place. That way the RO can easily check if the firearm is unloaded and knows that all cases are empty and no one forgot about one left in a chamber. It is also the reason why rifles can be stored in the racks behind the line, but not left in a case on a bench or on the concrete.

I don't have any problem with the rules and much prefer shooting there with good supervision than going up to Spenceville and the lack of supervision there.

[AAShooter]

First thank you for the comments and suggestions regarding the RSO duties at LPRG. Now lets take a minute to look at your comments ..... all of you.

1. Rather than ***** on this web site, come forward and state your name and e mail so we can address your complaints individually.
2. If anyone thinks that the RSO duties are easy and that we deal with reasonable people who actually have brought some measure of horse sense to the range with them..... your wrong.
3. To give you a simple idea of what we RSO's see on a daily basis think this: People shoot like they drive. Now look around at the people driving and see what we deal with.
4. Have any of you trained, papered, know what your doing shooters out there had a gun pointed at you and had the person say " it's not loaded"?
5. As for the gun in or out of the case during a cease fire. This has been a range rule forever. It's not going to change because your upset with it. Suck it up or find another range. May I suggest Manteca. It's a place that's a wreck waiting to happen, a free for all, might be your cup of tea.
6. The reason that we on the Mic say " may I have your attention please- everyone look at me is because your too busy shooting the **** to listen to range commands, when you are involved in a screw up because there's no such thing as an accident according to YOUR military you will say I didn't hear that command - I wonder why. Again find another less safety oriented place to shoot!
7. We are ALL volunteers, we do not get paid. We are there so YOU have a place to legally shoot that thing you shoot. So abide by the rules or leave!
8. I would be more than happy to discuss any of these rules with you strait up face to face if you have the courage to defend your position.
9. The rules are posted in several places as you come in to the office area. Ask yourself ....... have I read those rules before I acted like a fool on this discussion page!
10. the rules are for EVERYONE'S safety, put in place so YOU and everyone else is doing the same thing at the same time and not what you DAMN WELL PLEASE WHEN YOU DECIDE.

I am the guy that's full of himself and I am a certified RSO plus I also am a LPRG Board Member so you tickled the fancy of the right guy. Come up some Sunday and I'll let you run the show just so you can see how easy it really is, if you have the good ol American guts to take me up on it that is.
The name is Rich Descoteaux and I'll be glad to talk to anyone with a problem that does not hide behind a website using some name other than their own.

Rich, when I saw someone from the club step up to respond to this thread, I was hopeful. Rather than address the issues at hand, you chose to go on the defensive. With such a negative view of your customers, perhaps you should not be working around them. Yes, you have to deal with unsafe, inexperienced shooters . . . that's what you trained for and choose to volunteer for. That is just part of running a range. You seem upset that you have to work in that environment.

Telling people to look at you for verbal commands over a PA is talking down to your shooters. Many teachers use that technique with their grade school children. If you have people that don't listen deal with them individually one-on-one. Unfortunately, I suspect your attitude is consistent with your fellow board members. It's not an us against them situation.

On a more pro-active note, what actions do you intend to take to address the original poster's concerns? It sounds like a serious concern if the actions did indeed happen. If you need more information, contact him via a private message. Just because you don't know his real name, it doesn't mean his feedback is not valuable and spot on. I hope the Board of Directors take more action on these concerns than this defensive reply.

[mkane]

First thank you for the comments and suggestions regarding the RSO duties at LPRG. Now lets take a minute to look at your comments ..... all of you.

1. Rather than ***** on this web site, come forward and state your name and e mail so we can address your complaints individually.
2. If anyone thinks that the RSO duties are easy and that we deal with reasonable people who actually have brought some measure of horse sense to the range with them..... your wrong.
3. To give you a simple idea of what we RSO's see on a daily basis think this: People shoot like they drive. Now look around at the people driving and see what we deal with.
4. Have any of you trained, papered, know what your doing shooters out there had a gun pointed at you and had the person say " it's not loaded"?
5. As for the gun in or out of the case during a cease fire. This has been a range rule forever. It's not going to change because your upset with it. Suck it up or find another range. May I suggest Manteca. It's a place that's a wreck waiting to happen, a free for all, might be your cup of tea.
6. The reason that we on the Mic say " may I have your attention please- everyone look at me is because your too busy shooting the **** to listen to range commands, when you are involved in a screw up because there's no such thing as an accident according to YOUR military you will say I didn't hear that command - I wonder why. Again find another less safety oriented place to shoot!
7. We are ALL volunteers, we do not get paid. We are there so YOU have a place to legally shoot that thing you shoot. So abide by the rules or leave!
8. I would be more than happy to discuss any of these rules with you strait up face to face if you have the courage to defend your position.
9. The rules are posted in several places as you come in to the office area. Ask yourself ....... have I read those rules before I acted like a fool on this discussion page!
10. the rules are for EVERYONE'S safety, put in place so YOU and everyone else is doing the same thing at the same time and not what you DAMN WELL PLEASE WHEN YOU DECIDE.

I am the guy that's full of himself and I am a certified RSO plus I also am a LPRG Board Member so you tickled the fancy of the right guy. Come up some Sunday and I'll let you run the show just so you can see how easy it really is, if you have the good ol American guts to take me up on it that is.
The name is Rich Descoteaux and I'll be glad to talk to anyone with a problem that does not hide behind a website using some name other than their own.

Sounds like a tuff guy

[NotEnufGarage]

First thank you for the comments and suggestions regarding the RSO duties at LPRG. Now lets take a minute to look at your comments ..... all of you.

1. Rather than ***** on this web site, come forward and state your name and e mail so we can address your complaints individually.
2. If anyone thinks that the RSO duties are easy and that we deal with reasonable people who actually have brought some measure of horse sense to the range with them..... your wrong.
3. To give you a simple idea of what we RSO's see on a daily basis think this: People shoot like they drive. Now look around at the people driving and see what we deal with.
4. Have any of you trained, papered, know what your doing shooters out there had a gun pointed at you and had the person say " it's not loaded"?
5. As for the gun in or out of the case during a cease fire. This has been a range rule forever. It's not going to change because your upset with it. Suck it up or find another range. May I suggest Manteca. It's a place that's a wreck waiting to happen, a free for all, might be your cup of tea.
6. The reason that we on the Mic say " may I have your attention please- everyone look at me is because your too busy shooting the **** to listen to range commands, when you are involved in a screw up because there's no such thing as an accident according to YOUR military you will say I didn't hear that command - I wonder why. Again find another less safety oriented place to shoot!
7. We are ALL volunteers, we do not get paid. We are there so YOU have a place to legally shoot that thing you shoot. So abide by the rules or leave!
8. I would be more than happy to discuss any of these rules with you strait up face to face if you have the courage to defend your position.
9. The rules are posted in several places as you come in to the office area. Ask yourself ....... have I read those rules before I acted like a fool on this discussion page!
10. the rules are for EVERYONE'S safety, put in place so YOU and everyone else is doing the same thing at the same time and not what you DAMN WELL PLEASE WHEN YOU DECIDE.

I am the guy that's full of himself and I am a certified RSO plus I also am a LPRG Board Member so you tickled the fancy of the right guy. Come up some Sunday and I'll let you run the show just so you can see how easy it really is, if you have the good ol American guts to take me up on it that is.
The name is Rich Descoteaux and I'll be glad to talk to anyone with a problem that does not hide behind a website using some name other than their own.

Sounds like a range I'll stay away from with self-important windbags like this on staff.

[M1A Rifleman]

[QUOTE=rjdesco;6797799]10. the rules are for EVERYONE'S safety, put in place so YOU and everyone else is doing the same thing at the same time and not what you DAMN WELL PLEASE WHEN YOU DECIDE.

I am the guy that's full of himself and I am a certified RSO plus I also am a LPRG Board Member so you tickled the fancy of the right guy. Come up some Sunday and I'll let you run the show just so you can see how easy it really is, if you have the good ol American guts to take me up on it that is.
The name is Rich Descoteaux and I'll be glad to talk to anyone with a problem that does not hide behind a website using some name other than their own.[/[QUOTE]

Yea, it was you, as I glanced at you name tage when I heard you stating that anyone who questions you, and what you say about safety is "stupid". So obviously you are not approachable, and any face to face would have only escalated negatively.

As for Rule #10, and in light of all your certifications, I am puzzled as to what you think gives YOU the right to handle a Ruger 10/22 at bench #4 playing with a front sight during a ceasefire, when MY safety is at stake. Follow the rules you expect others to follow and set a good example.

My other suggestion to you is to lay off the attitude, and walk the line rather than sit and be a smartass with the PA system. Treat people with respect and you will get it in return. The former RO's that I recall were Alvin, and a older heavy white haired guy, and these two were gentlemen.

[AAShooter]

I hate to see this turn into a Livermore gun club bashing; however, I am truly disturbed by the response posted by the club's board member. Livermore has such great potential but is fundamentally a trap club with a robust trap program. They need to bring their other programs up to that level and they could be one of the best clubs in Northern California.

If the allegations here are true, the Board needs to step up and take action.

[Arby]

LPRG Board of Directors

There are nine members of the board of this club, this matter came up at last nights meeting and the entire board is looking into the allegations and will take appropiate measures to correct any infractions found.

The non movement of firearms during a cease fire has been the rule since the club reopened some five or six years ago, Not a new rule, a long time user of the facility would be aware of that rule.

The "Asian RO" was being constructive in his comments as it's possible that someone could bring a gun to a range not knowing it may or may not be legal.
It has happened I assure you. A "smirk" is not a good response.

Thank you all for your opinions, we appreciate your concerns.

Rich Bronge, Pistol/Rifle Range Manager & Board Member