Disapointed with Livermore Range RO's

[M1A Rifleman]

I've been going to the Livermore Range since its reopening and have always had a great experience - until yesterday. What happen to the old RO's as the new guy's need training. Any Livermore Reps Here? I'd love to discuss my observations and help you.

First I noted they have several new rules- such as no carrying in weapons during a cease fire. - OK, this seems good. The next new one that seemed arbitrary was no gun cases at your bench. All guns needed to be on the bench at all times, and empty cases behind the yellow line near the racks. This means that if have more than one rifle, they must both be out on the bench or one in the rack- nothing in the case at your bench near your feet. No big deal, but rather useless for safety.

Now, the for the problem. I get there, unpack the M1A and 20 rnd mag - a RAW- I have papers, meaning I can own the way it is. At the cease fire, the asian RO, calls me back to my bench, and say's he wants to let me know that the way my M1A is configured, that it is illegal. He say's he is not going to do anything, he just saying. I look at him, smirk, wave my hand at him to go away, and say its legal and walk off. Why do the uninformed feel the need to spread their knowledge? 2nd, its not is job to inform me of the law. Mind your own.

Problem #2. The dude using the micro phone - I assume he's the new head RO? Anyway, talk about being full of your self and an *******. He yells accross the PA. Say's stuff like "everyones eye's on me, look at me while I am speaking". Never made sense to me why the RO's like him either sit on their *** during a cease fire, or they huddle together and talk out near the targets, and then yell at someone over they PA at the far end of the line. For safety they should be patrolling up and down the line, as their presence will remind people of the rules.

The worst is during a cease fire, he's telling people to stay away from their bench, yet I come back from the target to find him holding and playing with the guys 10/22 at the bench next to mine trying to install his sight. I near had a fit when I saw this as I'm sure he swept me with the muzzel when I was down range.

Next I hear him ya-yaing behind me with another RO about how range rules must be followed, and there is no exception for anyone, etc. - amazing, I guess he is the exception? Then I hear him demean several races, and NRA members, which confirmed to me that he is a jerk.

Hey, Livermore, where did you get these guys, from the Chabot Range?

Rant over.

[StupidMoFo]

I had a similar experience at los altos rod and gun club so now I just spend the 20 bucks(or whatever it costs to get in) on gas and drive out to blm land. It's priceless

[2shotjoe]

First I noted they have several new rules- such as no carrying in weapons during a cease fire. - OK, this seems good. The next new one that seemed arbitrary was no gun cases at your bench. All guns needed to be on the bench at all times, and empty cases behind the yellow line near the racks. This means that if have more than one rifle, they must both be out on the bench or one in the rack- nothing in the case at your bench near your feet. No big deal, but rather useless for safety.

At last you can bring in your case, at Rancho you most leave it at the car. carrying multiple rifles plus gear is a *****.

I still need to check out Lincolns Drillman's range.

[drkphibr]

Fan of Livermore

Compared to other ranges in the bay area, I generally enjoy shooting at Livermore and have, for the most part, had positive experiences.

The RO you mentioned can be a bit of a tool, especially when it comes to picking up brass, which is kind of funny, since he obviously reloads. The brass belongs to each owner shooting it. If that owner decides to pick it back up and do whatever with it, their call. Likewise, if they say the shooter next to them can have what they don't want, even better. Drop it in the bucket and it now belongs to the range. We know the rules, especially if we're regulars. You see us, we see you weekly, so give it a break. No harm, no foul.

As for the rules, I stopped questioning logic a long time ago, at EVERY range. They all have different rules and most are not in sync. WALKING with a CASED firearm poses no more danger than standing behind a yellow line where fully loaded magazines are sitting next to firearms that could chamber and fire them as fast or faster than someone trying to uncase a firearm. No opening that case and handling the firearm during a cease fire, I completely understand. But WALKING with a cased firearm? Come on.

The "no firearms in cases next to the bench on the ground" is another silly one. Not a fan of leaving my cased firearms in back of me while I'm shooting. Would rather have them by my side on the ground cased for safety/ownership concerns. Another one I scratch my head over.

When it comes to interpreting the law, OMG, good luck. EVERYONE is an expert on his interpretation and application of it. I simply avoid the possibility of the confrontation by not pushing the letter of the law. Just like open carry. Can I? Yes. Will I? Probably not. Too many cops don't actually know the law and will enforce their version/interpretation of it as apparently EVERYONE legally carrying an unloaded gun is an imminent threat to the community and is intent on shooting someone. Anything gray/marginal will draw attention, usually unwanted and unwarranted by a self-anointed expert.

At the end of the day, their rules are their rules and if I want to shoot there, I'll abide by them. All in all, this is a great place to shoot. I believe these guys are, for the most part, all volunteers and generally do a good job (much thanks guys). There are countless goobers that can't seem to follow simple directions, and I'm sure it gets old repeating them. Each RO brings his own style to the position as well as the mic. Some just better than others. The occasional chest pounding and position of authority ego stroke is to be expected because any time you mix guns and people, all bets are off.

[Jonathan Doe]

Now, the for the problem. I get there, unpack the M1A and 20 rnd mag - a RAW- I have papers, meaning I can own the way it is. At the cease fire, the asian RO, calls me back to my bench, and say's he wants to let me know that the way my M1A is configured, that is is illegal. He say's he is not going to do anything, he just saying. I look at him, smirk, wave my hand at him to go away, and say it legal and walk off. Why do the uninformed feel the need to spread their knowledge? 2nd, its not is job to inform me of the law. Mind your own.

Maybe the RO thought that you didn't know the AW law and try to inform you. You will be surprised to see how many people don't know or don't understand about AW law. You can just tell him that it is registered and leave it at that.

[Burbur]

Sounds to me like his sharing his knowledge of AW by Feature was the nicest thing he did all day. Not all gunners are as knowledgeable as a CalGunner. Other douchebaggery aside, I would have just replied "it's registered."

The rest of it sounds over the top.

[M1A Rifleman]

The Rules are not the issue-its their house,and I agree with most of them - or at least know how to get around em without being noticed. The problem is a loudmouth RO that breaks his own rules - ie handling a weapon at the bench during a ceasefire and sweeping other with it. I did not care for the negative racists remarks I heard him utter to another either. Just after this incident, I near laughed out loud when I heard him say that anyone that questions him is stupid, because he knows gun safety. Bummer the place has attracted this type.

Its also not their job tell me or anyone else that my RAW should have Bullet Button and no 20rnd mag, which is wrong with a RAW. I mean, I just want to shoot, and mind my own, and not have some goof in my face with inaccuracies.

Well, Plumas & Tahoe NF, here I come.

[tmagnum000]

I had an unpleasant experience with the very same RO two weeks ago. He approached me with a condescending tone and was rude in a way that pretty much made me so furious that I packed up and left. I understand that a RO needs to in force rules and maintain a safe environment for everybody but you don't need to go out of your way to me mean.

I wasn't surprised at all when I saw this thread and noticed that somebody else had a similar experience with the very same RO.

[Gryff]

At the cease fire, the asian RO, calls me back to my bench, and say's he wants to let me know that the way my M1A is configured, that it is illegal. He say's he is not going to do anything, he just saying. I look at him, smirk, wave my hand at him to go away, and say its legal and walk off. Why do the uninformed feel the need to spread their knowledge? 2nd, its not is job to inform me of the law. Mind your own.

Is there a reason you had to be obnoxious in your response rather just saying "Thanks for the information?" Even if the guy has his info wrong, he was trying to look out for you. No reason to bust his balls for this, and if anything, it is a good opportunity to educate him on the law.

Or do you think that shooters in California should all just mind their own business and not try to help each other?

[ghettojet]

Is there a reason you had to be obnoxious in your response rather just saying "Thanks for the information?" Even if the guy has his info wrong, he was trying to look out for you. No reason to bust his balls for this, and if anything, it is a good opportunity to educate him on the law.

Or do you think that shooters in California should all just mind their own business and not try to help each other?

I think everyone in california should mind their own damn business, not just shooters.

[AAShooter]

. . . The worst is during a cease fire, he's telling people to stay away from their bench, yet I come back from the target to find the SOB holding and playing with the guys 10/22 at the bench next to mine trying to install his sight. I near had a fit when I saw this as I'm sure he swept me with the muzzel when I was down range.

Next I hear him ya-yaing behind me with another RO about how range rules must be followed, and there is no exception for anyone, etc. - amazing, I guess he is the exception? Then I hear him demean several races, and NRA members, which confirmed to me that he is a jerk.

. . .

You should contact the President and Board of Directors ASAP regarding your experience, especially if the RSO is handling a firearm during the target change period.

[kmca]

I think everyone in california should mind their own damn business, not just shooters.

Okay, if that's the way you feel...personally I would appreciate someone informing me of an infraction that I may not know about....say something like, "excuse me, but did you know your left brake light isn't working". It could save me some money

[AAShooter]

. . . First I noted they have several new rules- such as no carrying in weapons during a cease fire. - OK, this seems good. The next new one that seemed arbitrary was no gun cases at your bench. All guns needed to be on the bench at all times, and empty cases behind the yellow line near the racks. This means that if have more than one rifle, they must both be out on the bench or one in the rack- nothing in the case at your bench near your feet. No big deal, but rather useless for safety. . .

I know the first one you mention is not a new rule. It is a bit unusual for many ranges but it has been around a while. The rules should be clearly spelled out and posted. I don't recall if they still have a comprehensive list of the rules posted but they should address the concerns you raised. Rules should not be RSO-dependent.

One think I personally don't like about the new process that started is most people now have range cards so they now longer sign and receive a copy of the range rules when they sign in. Even if they do sign in and have to fill out the range rules form, I don't believe they get a copy of it any longer. Personally, I would be curious if the range rules really reflect the "not guns in cases" rule where they have to be on the bench or in the rack. I guess if you are done shooting you can case the firearm and take it to your car.

It would be nice if the range rules were posted on their website.

BTW, they are looking for volunteers if you want to help out: http://www.lprg.org/Volunteers_20110117.pdf

[17+1]

So is it 'racist' that you identified him by race?

I wouldn't bother complaining, I'd just not go back.

[Wicked Pete]

Seems like a common trait (in shooters?) and at the range; "they are full of themselves".