GPal (Gunpal) problems?

[Interloper]

What's the tag for faded text? Or is it reserved for GPal board members?

[leelaw]

What's the tag for faded text? Or is it reserved for GPal board members?

What do you mean?

[Interloper]

What do you mean?

Wisenheimer

[Spiggy]

Wisenheimer

*squints* I think the calguns is broken

[paul0660]

This has been a sad, sad, affair, highlighted by one chuckle:

[leelaw]

This has been a sad, sad, affair, highlighted by one chuckle:

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w...1285851746.jpg

Ooh, ooh, I know this one!

Colonel Mustard, with the Five-seveN, in the restroom!

[Vin496]

This has been a sad, sad, affair, highlighted by one chuckle:

When you go to other sites and read the uncensored threads about this situation with GPal and Cannon, it would be comical if this didn't affect so many people financially.

Guy definitely is unsavory, seems like those in the past here who have questioned his ethics have been vindicated.

[tacticalcity]

Your attitudes are extremely offensive and childish.

Gpal made a huge deal out of their connection with Calguns. Calguns went out of their way to help Gpal reach their members. When we researched Gpal one of the first things we noticed is that all of the board members of Gpal had a position on the board here at Calguns, some of them Ben VERY high ranking members. We trusted them because we trust you.

Now you are laughing at us for that?

I do not care that you are a moderator Lee Law, that is truly shameful behavior on your part.

Calguns does bear a responsibility to its members for its connection with Gpal. While unofficial, the connection does clearly exist. We only trusted them because of that connection. I personally would never have used Gpal if not for the fact that their CEO and their board members were all people on Calguns board.

Many of us have been hurt financially by Gpal. It is not a laughing matter. So while I do not hold you financially responsible, I do resent the hell out of the fact that you find this all so "funny".

I have been a member of Calguns for a very long time. I love it here. I refer all of my friends here. I think of myself as "belonging" here and consider myself part of the Calguns family. I trust that when I read a post from a board member, or see anything associate with a board member that it will be reliable. With regards to GPal, that was not the case. While I do not expect to be crying in your beer over Gpals massive short comings. I do expect you to be embarrassed by them. I certainly don't expect to see you laughing about it publicly.

[jdberger]

No - I think that we're laughing at what a complete trainwreck it's all become. I know that I, for one, feel horrible for people who've had to deal with delayed withdrawals, banking problems, lack of CS, etc.

I also find amusing the efforts to tar Calguns (the forum), The Calguns Foundation [the 501(c)3], and the members of each with the problems of GPal.

I concede that having your money tied up and your business adversely impacted isn't very funny, though.

[tacticalcity]

Train wreck indeed...and heart breaking. Such a great concept and wonderful mission statement, but an absolute disaster with regards to execution. Four months is more than long enough to resolve the underlying issue causing the late with drawls. An average of 21 days per withdrawal is inexcusable. Not to mention all the withdrawals that went completely missing. The inability to reach support only makes it that much more frustrating. The absolute worst experience I've had with another business since starting mine.

What I am complaining about here, is the attitude by the Calguns staff that they bear zero responsibility here. Granted only those specific board members associated with Gpal bear a financial responsibility. However, Calguns does bear a moral responsibility. The Calguns name was used to promote GPal. It is why so many Calguns members did business with Gpal. For the higher ups here at Calguns to turn around and act like they had nothing to do with our decision to trust Gpal is VERY insulting and offensive.

Like I said, I feel like Calguns is my second home. I love it here. That is what makes this all so darn frustrating for me. Calguns has gotten, and continues to get a black eye by this. I just feel very strongly that Kes, Lee Law and others are handling this very wrong from a PR stand point. They are further alienating their members rather than consoling them. Frankly, I feel we deserve some consoling.

Tell us you feel terrible about this. Tell us you recognize that we trusted Gpal because of their close relationship with Calguns, but are not official connected with them. Tell us you still have faith in them and sincerely hope that they will be able to resolve the underlying issue causing the late/missing withdrawals. Tell us to keep the faith. Tell us you wish you had the ability to get involved and fix things but you cannot as you are not officically connected with Gpal. Tell us you still have faith that Gpal will make it right. But don't shrug off all responsibility, deny any association with Gpal, or tell us we are silly for being as upset as we are. That is just rubbing salt in a very painful open wound.

Personally I like Ben and the few board members that I've had contact with on here. I've also had some good online conversations with Lee Law and Kes. I like and respect them all very much. That doesn't change the fact that Gpal has turned out to be a disaster, and that the responses I've read from Kes and Lee Law strike me as irresponsible and offensive. I'm not so upset by Kes and Lee Law's responses that I will hold a grudge...but I do feel a responsibilty to speak up and point it out. I have been hurt so badly by Gpal that I've finally given up on them and feel I owe my own customers an appology for encouraging them to use Gpal and an explination of why I have stopped accepting Gpal payments. Haven't given up on Ben, just his company. If they chose to hold a grudge over that...not much I can do.

[leelaw]

Your attitudes are extremely offensive and childish.

You're right. Nothing about GPal, or Ben Cannon, or Calguns, or Calguns Foundation is ever funny. It is completely serious. Always. Forgive me for daring to inject some light hearted humor, and I shall try to be more morose in the future.



Now, are you done telling me what I'm thinking, or what my intent is, or do you want to keep assuming?

While you're at it, shift some blame on me personally for the actions of a completely independent company which I have absolutely no control or association with whatsoever.

What I am complaining about here, is the attitude by the Calguns staff that they bear zero responsibility here

Nevermind, you beat me to the punch.

Don't lose sight of the forest.

[jdberger]

I can't speak for others, but I agree that the situation is heartbreaking - and I feel terrible.

I do think that GPal is going through some pretty serious growing pains and things will eventually get better - but honestly, that's just a feeling. I don't have any inside info. I have faith, though.

I also think that while Ben is "colorful" - he's not a thief. I think he's doing what he can to fix this. Again, no inside info.

Honestly, laughing at a tragedy is human reaction. Otherwise, stuff like this wouldn't be as funny as it is....

[6172crew]

So what should happen if anyone of the other sponsors at the top of the forum should have business issues with the customer?

Let's make up a fictitious story for the sake of an argument or debate.

Joestactical.com has a big sign he wants to place on calguns.net and he has this product that is going to fill a void. He talks with the owner who says "Joe, I think you have a great idea and I will be one of your first customers" "and not only that but I'm going to tell my buddies about it".

Now 3-4 months later the parts are defective or the product does not live up to the hype.

Should the owner of the forum ban said member? Should he start a thead "let's hang Joe" Should he modify the rules of the forum to allow a interwebz lynchin'?

What is the smart thing to do as the owner of the forum? This question seems to be the one that a lot of people disagree with.

On that same note; what or how would anyone have handled the freakshow ordeal?

[tacticalcity]

There is a huge difference.

First, when you click on the about us page for those "vendors" you do not see CALGUNS BOARD MEMBER underneath each and everyone of the members of that company's board. Ben Cannon was a head honcho here on Calguns and specifically used that connection in his promotion of Gpal (originally GunPal). The other Gpal board members also were not shy about their connection with Calguns. It was their biggest selling point, and they used it.

Second, you rarely see Kes, Lee Law or other staff members actively promoting those businesses with personal recommendations about both the company and the CEO. You did see a lot of that with Gpal. Before Gpal had troubles the Calguns staff was more than happy to be associated with Gpal. I don't blame them for that. The company had a great concept. There is a serious need for gun friendly payment processing company. It wasn't until GPal had troubles that they began denying any possible connection between the two. That is the part that is insulting.

The association between Calguns and Gpal was blatantly used in Gpal's marketing both here on Calguns and elsewhere with absolutely no objections from Calguns, in fact their reaction was the opposite. They were very excited about Gpal. Calguns staff went out of their way to encourage Calguns members to use Gpal.

You do not see that with other business, not to that extreme. They might make reference to good experience, but they try to avoid doing so specifically because they don't want it to turn around and bite them in the rear as it has here.

To then turn around act like there is absolutely no connection, and make wise cracks about us not only for complaining about the service we have received but also the fact that we point out that the only reason we did business with Gpal was because of the recommendations and cross-over between Gpal and Calguns is indeed extremely insulting.

I'm not saying you crucify somebody. I am saying they need to show some class here.

Saying you still have faith they will pull through, but feel really terrible people are experiencing trouble is the right approach here. That is all that had to be said and people would have accepted that answer. New people would have kept complaining, but then you give the same heartfelt answer and they too will accept it. They might still gripe, but at least they know you are taking responsibility for you small role in their current predicament.

Making fun of people who got burned because they trusted somebody based on both your recommendation of them and their very close association with you is simply not acceptable behavior.

Now, if the underlying problem causing the missing withdrawals does not get solved, and I mean soon as it has been happening since June, then you need to cut all association with them. Starting with forcing your board members to choose between being a board member of Calguns or Gpal. So long as they are board members of both, Calguns continues to bear responsibility for all the new people signing up and getting burned. Then you ban them from being a vendor and promoting on your site.

They have financially hurt countless Calguns.net members who for the most part only used their services because of your association with them and because of how much they trusted you. You need to own up to that. You need to take responsibility for it. Pretty soon you are going to forced to do something about it.

Denying any and all association, or moral responsibility is shameful. It might be a lie you believe yourself, but it is still a lie. Making fun of those of us who call you on that lie is completely unacceptable.

This is going to be a black eye for Calguns for a long time to come. Even if it gets solved tomorrow, the PR nightmare is going to last a very long time. Your reaction to it has made it 1000 times worse. You guys all have your heads in the sand and for those of us who care about this forum that is extremely upsetting.

I know you don't want to hear what I am telling you. I know you resent it. I am telling it to you as a friend. I owe it to you to be frank. I'm somebody who wants Calguns to continue to thrive. I'm somebody who likes you. Those who don't like you are having a field day. If you continue to insult your members who got burned by Gpal, and deny all responsibility...you will loose them as members. Those members are your influence. You need them to continue all the great work you are doing. Right now you are taking them for granted. Never a good idea.

[leelaw]

You've directed your anger at gpal into other targets of opportunity. It is misdirected and dead wrong.

If you are going to claim a that I'm making fun of people who lost money, then I'm going to claim that your anger has clouded your judgement because I'm not. If you are going to claim that I was l giving widespread advertisement and praising of gpal, then I challenge you to back up your claims. The same goes with your assertion that I have direct blame in the whole gpal fiasco.

If you fail to do so, then I will accept your apology, privately or publicly.