GPal (Gunpal) problems?

[Vin496]

Do you know this for certain?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=346308

Post 6 and 22.

[ArmsTech]

comedy.

Since I don't really know the entire history who is the joke on?

[gunblobber]

Now there is no tie between CGF, Calguns (which is separate from CGF and is completely owned by Kestryll), or GPal.

Does Ben Cannon still personally own any of the hardware upon which Calguns.net runs; and does he still, in a personal capacity, "donate all hosting" for Calguns.net; both questions coming from Mr. Cannon's claims here and in other similar raffle threads?

IMPORTANT NOTICE: Ben Cannon will retain ownership of the server equipment for liability reasons. Ben Cannon through his company GeoVario currently donates all hosting for calguns.net, in exchange for in-kind advertising.

It has been asked in this thread, and I have asked it elsewhere, but I have never seen a straight-up answer (perhaps because nobody here actually knows?): is Ben Cannon the sole owner of GPal, Inc.? Is Ben Cannon the sole officer of GPal, Inc.? If not, who are the other owners and/or officers?

[tenpercentfirearms]

Does Ben Cannon still personally own any of the hardware upon which Calguns.net runs; and does he still, in a personal capacity, "donate all hosting" for Calguns.net; both questions coming from Mr. Cannon's claims here and in other similar raffle threads?

No. Ben Cannon was a partner at Geovario. Ben Cannon does not own Geovario. I believe he has taken a lesser role or maybe even does not work for Geovario anymore.

It has been asked in this thread, and I have asked it elsewhere, but I have never seen a straight-up answer (perhaps because nobody here actually knows?): is Ben Cannon the sole owner of GPal, Inc.? Is Ben Cannon the sole officer of GPal, Inc.? If not, who are the other owners and/or officers?

I believe Ben Cannon might be the sole owner of GPal. I know the Board of Advisors were nothing more than advisors and had no financial stake in GPal.

[tacticalcity]

tacticalcity, I've read your posts and I believe that you are missing a major point here, there are not just 2 companies here. There are 2 companies (GPal and Calguns.net) and a completely separate non-profit entity (The Calguns Foundation). You mention that Ben was "on the board" of calguns. He was on the board of CGF not CGN. Kes is the owner of CGN, lee-law and others are moderators for CGN. Kes and the other moderators have no control over who is on the board of CGF.

Legal constructions for tax purposes and the division of labor are not fooling anyone. Nor should they. CGN and CGF both contain current and former moderators, founding members, and so on. It's not like they are completely separate entities with no association with each other. Besides, as TenPercentFirearms implied, it was the CALGUNS name that was used as EYECANDY to get Calguns members to do business with Gpal.

We trusted the Calguns name as we were meant to. For you to turn around and try and say, "No, no, no that was referring those Calguns guys way over there not us Calguns guns over here" is insulting to say the least.

I have not and am not suggesting Calguns is financially responsible here. I have no idea if those board members were paid, and so I have no idea if they have financial liability nor do I care. I am suggesting that you are morally responsible. You lent your name, background and reputations to Gpal to use as a marketing tool. It worked. We trusted Gpal because of you (by you I mean Calguns not you specifically). You bear responsibility for that. Your attempts to explain it away with acronyms and frankly half truths (every member of CGF is an influential member of the CGN community) is infuriating. The fact that many of your posts make fun of those of us who became Gpal members based on our trust of the Calguns name is even more infuriating. You are on the defensive to the point that you are actually muddying your own name. Your response to the crisis is more of a problem than the crisis itself.

There is a public relations battle going on here. We trusted Gpal because we trusted Calguns. Their associations with Calguns was specifically mentioned to gain our trust. You guys are deluding yourselves if you think we give a damn about the difference between CGF or CGN. We don't. The only people that do are the people who on the hook (from a public relations standpoint).

[tacticalcity]

You're associated with CGN, and GPal is CGN's puppetmaster. Obviously you're connected and under GPal's control!

Don't bother with a denial, it'll embolden us who know better!

Since it was asked several times, including by Lee Law himself, I will respond.

This is the specific post I am referring to when I say I am offended by Lee Laws attitude with regards to this matter.

I've seen many like it from other moderators here. It implies that those who are complaining to Calguns about the Gpal mess are nuts.

We are being made fun of for trusting Gpal based on their association with Calguns and being told that association does not exist over and over again. Since we refuse to accept that, we get ridiculed.

This is where Calguns is loosing the PR battle, and rightfully so.

It is not that we hold Calguns financially responsible, we hold them morally responsible. The Calguns name was lent to a business, we trusted that business with our business, we got burned. Now Calguns says they never encouraged us to use Gpal. When we complain to them for misleading us we expect sympathy and possibly even apologies for encouraging us to use Gpal. We do not expect to be made fun of. We deserve better. Calguns is taking its members for granted. Those members are Calguns power. With that power Calguns has done and continue to do great things for the people of California. It is a terrible, terrible idea to treat the members this way.

We are not asking you to accept responsibility for the things you had no control over. We are asking you to accept responsibility for the things you did. We also expect you to treat us with respect.

Don't get me wrong. I've said it before. I personally like Lee Law, Kes and the others. I am simply saying they are off base here. If you can't tell a friend you think he is behaving inappropriately, then he's not a friend.

[Ledbetter]

Fooled you?

A guy can easily pass for a gentleman until he unloads one in the punch bowl. After that, you're embarrasing yourself by defending him.

I think the best statement is "I trusted CalGuns, so I trusted GPal." Many victims would not be out money if GPal had not been started and publicized here.

For GPal to continue to solicit business does not seem moral or legal to me, in light of the representations they make.

[temecula]

GunPal is an e-commerce business allowing payments and money transfers to be made through the Internet. GunPal serves as an electronic alternative to traditional paper methods such as checks and money orders. GunPal is distinct from its competition in that it does not restrict transactions for firearms and other legal goods, instead they require that all laws be followed.
A GunPal account can be funded with an electronic debit from a bank account or by a credit card. The recipient of a GunPal transfer can either request a check from GunPal, or request a transfer to their bank account. GunPal is an example of a payment intermediary service that facilitates worldwide e-commerce.
GunPal performs payment processing for online vendors, auction sites, and other commercial users, for which it charges a fee. It sometimes also charges a transaction fee for receiving money (a percentage of the amount sent plus an additional fixed amount). The fees charged depend on the currency used, the payment option used, the country of the sender, the country of the recipient, the amount sent and the recipient's account type.[1]
Contents [hide]
1 History
1.1 Beginnings
2 Board of Advisors
3 Auction Affiliates
4 Bank status
5 Safety and protection policies
6 Phishing
7 Current Status
8 See also
9 References
10 External links
[edit]History

[edit]Beginnings
GunPal was purported to have been founded in January 2004 by Benjamin Cannon as an Internet financial services company. The actual date of incorporation on the California Secretary of State's website is in 2009 however. For the next 5 years, Cannon claims to have built a team of engineers, lawyers, banks and other financial institutions to take on a niche in the online payments world, and GunPal launched November 3, 2009.[2]
[edit]Board of Advisors

GunPal lists the following individuals as being part of its Board of Advisors[3]:
Glenn Bellamy, Attorney, Greenbaum, Doll & McDonals, PLLC.
Jason A. Davis, Attorney, Davis & Associates, A Law Corporation.
Steven Enstad, Co-Founder, PageDNA.com.
Jack Haddad, MD, MBA, CMT, DITA - Hedge Fund Manager & Founder, MD Capital Management, LLP.
Gene Hoffman, Jr., Chairman & CEO, Vindicia, Inc.
James M. Ingram, Attorney.
Wes Morris, Owner, TenPercentFirearms.com.
Paul Nordberg, Owner, Calguns.net.
Ivan Pena, Pena Consulting
Bill Wiese, Vice Chairman, The Calguns Foundation
Many of the advisors listed are members of the Board of Directors[4] of the Calguns Foundation. Ben Cannon, CEO of GunPal/GPal was himself the Treasurer of this foundation at one time.
On September 14, 2010, Oleg Volk announced on his personal blog[5] that he resigned from GPAL's Board of Advisors, and noted that the position was never paid nor official.
[edit]Auction Affiliates

In 2010, AuctionArms.com elected to use GUNPAL as its online payment provider of choice.[6] As of 7/20/2010 AuctionArms.com had ammended their endorsement[7] of GunPal/Gpal with a cautionary statement and had begun the task of helping Auction Arms members reclaim funds still held by GPal/GunPal.
On September 10, 2010 Auctions Arms removed the GPal logo from the front page, and issued the following statement:
AuctionArms.com no longer endorses Gpal.net as our online payment provider. I have formally informed GPal CEO Ben Cannon of this decision. We will continue to support those sellers who still wish to use GPal.net. Manny DelaCruz CEO/AuctionArms.com, Inc.[8]
[edit]Bank status

GunPal is not classified as a bank in the United States, though the company is subject to some of the rules and regulations governing the financial industry including Regulation E consumer protections and the USA PATRIOT Act.[9]
[edit]Safety and protection policies

The GunPal Buyer Protection Policy states that customers may file a buyer complaint if they did not receive an item or if the item they purchased was significantly not as described. If the buyer used a credit card, they might get a refund via chargeback from their credit card company.
According to GunPal, it protects sellers in a limited fashion via the Seller Protection Policy.[10] In general the Seller Protection Policy is intended to protect the seller from certain kinds of chargebacks or complaints if seller meets certain conditions including proof of delivery to the buyer. GunPal states the Seller Protection Policy is designed to protect sellers against claims by buyers of unauthorized payments and against claims of non-receipt of any merchandise. Note that this contrasts with the consumer protection they offer. This policy should be read carefully before assuming protection. In particular the Seller Protection Policy includes a list of "Exclusions" which itself includes "Intangible goods", "Claims for receipt of goods 'not as described'" and "Total reversals over the annual limit". There are also other restrictions in terms of the sale itself, the payment method and the destination country the item is shipped to (simply having a tracking mechanism is not sufficient to guarantee the Seller Protection Policy is in effect).
[edit]Phishing

GunPal claims to have developed substantial anti-Phishing resources, GunPal encourages consumers to report all phishing emails to them, to better equip them in fighting this phenomenon.
[edit]Current Status

GunPal changed its name to GPal on May 13, 2010.[11] Shortly after the name change many customers began experiencing issues securing their funds from GPal. Fund disbursement continues to be a major issue for all GPal customers. GPal management had tried beginning as early as February 9, 2010 to conceal these problems as being minor or sporadic in nature and not indicative of a complete halt in automated disbursement. As time wore on Ben Cannon, GunPal's CEO was forced to reveal that his previous statements were inaccurate and acknowledge that GPal was unable to process bank transfers to its customer's banks as described on the GPal website.
[edit]See also

eCache
Electronic money
Google Checkout
Itex Corporation
PayMate
PayPal Mafia
Ripplepay
Swreg
[edit]References

^ "fees". GunPal. 2009-10-29. Retrieved 2009-11-11.
^ "GUNPAL, Inc.: The First Serious Competitor for PayPal Inc.". Reuters. 2009-10-29. Retrieved 2009-11-11.
^ "GunPal Board of Advisors.". GunPal. 2009-10-29. Retrieved 2009-11-11.
^ "Calguns Foundation Board of Directors.".
^ "olegvolk: I resigned from GPAL adviser board.".
^ "GUNPAL.net to be Featured as AuctionArms.com Payment Method". TD Ameritrade. 2010-01-01. Retrieved 2010-01-01.
^ "AuctionArms positon on GPAL issues". Auctions Arms. 2010-07-20.
^ "AuctionArms Removes Endorsement of GPAL". Auctions Arms. 2010-09-10.
^ Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism (USA Patriot Act) Act of 2001, Pub. L. No. 107-56, 115 Stat. 272 (2001)
^ "AUP.". GunPal. 2009-10-29. Retrieved 2009-11-11.
^ "GPal Name Change". GunPal. 2009-5-13.
[edit]External links

GunPal
"Assessing Criticism of PayPal" by Dr. Ralph F. Wilson, Web Commerce Today, Issue 56, March 15, 2002

[freonr22]

temecula. you copied a page from the internet, did you have a comment?

[Ape]

temecula. you copied a page from the internet, did you have a comment?

Wondering the same thing?

[cadillacmike]

There needs to be some clarification here.
Now there is no tie between CGF, Calguns (which is separate from CGF and is completely owned by Kestryll), or GPal.

Not sure i agree with the above...

An NSLOOOKUP shows that GPAL and CALGUNS are on the same Class C subnet, which means they are very likely in the same building or office complex, and are probably even in the same room.

The subnet is geovario.com's of which Mr Cannon was / is an owner.


[mdonohue@atlas ~]$ nslookup
> calguns.net
Server: 4.2.2.1
Address: 4.2.2.1#53

Non-authoritative answer:
Name: calguns.net
Address: 206.125.47.50
> gpal.net
Server: 4.2.2.1
Address: 4.2.2.1#53

Non-authoritative answer:
Name: gpal.net
Address: 206.125.47.62

That isn't conclusive, you can have multiple IP's tied to one machine, but it's likely they are separate boxes. However, the netblock they are on is the same. Both IP's belong to GeoVario:

Name: GeoVario Main
Handle: GEOVA
Street: 4960 Almaden Expy #207
City: San Jose
State/Province: CA
Postal Code: 95118
Country: US
Registration Date: 2008-10-11
Last Updated: 2010-07-15
Comments: http://www.geovario.com/ Standard NOC hours are 8am till 6pm PDT Email 24x7x365

I don't know what business arerangements are in place, but geovario.com which is (or was) owned at least in part by Mr Cannon hosts both gpal AND Calguns.

And that does NOT meet my definition of "no tie between"

The problem is (as was stated in 10%'s longer post) that the bad blood from all this is going to have a crippling perhaps fatal effect on gpal as a viable future company. And I do not see the problems are being corrected for the average gpal user.

The only current positive remarks about folks having their money primptly paid to them are persons who apear to be closely associated with calguns. I do not see any posts from others stating that their funds are being promptly paid out by gpal.

Kesatryll himself posted that he has funds in gpal. OK fine, he pretty much owns this forum, which is hosted by geovario.com

Fron another thread (now closed):
GPal is a completely separate business entity and other than being a customer with funds in a GPal account Calguns has no ties to GPal.

I continue to use GPal and expect that the problems they are having will get sorted out in time.
I do NOT have any concerns about being ripped off because I have funds in a GPal account.

Again, I take issue with the "no ties" statement in light of the facts about the hosting and domain servers nored above.

[Casual_Shooter]

I don't think being hosted in the same location, on the same computer etc creates any "ties" between GPal and CGN or anyone else for that matter.

[gunblobber]

That stuff was all cleared up in this thread:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=346308&page=5

specifically, here:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=5071895&postcount=198

[Vin496]

That stuff was all cleared up in this thread:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=346308&page=5

specifically, here:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...&postcount=198

There is an interesting 2 paragraph in that post.

Does Ben have any "privately owned" servers in GeoVario's rack? NO. Does anyone have "privately owned" servers in GeoVario's rack? YES we have 1 server that is not GeoVario's... we call that subleasing space. Who is it? The lady friend of one of our lawyers - which encourages discounted rates when we need to protect ourselves from lawsuits - typically being brought against us - by anti-gunners who hate GeoVario's decision to be a 2A friendly hosting provider.

What was the deal with "Ben running sweepstakes" in GeoVario's name? For those of you who played that Game - did you ever look at your credit card statements? Not one single transaction came from GeoVario LLC. Every single cent from those sweepstakes went to help Ben pay for all the bills that he racked up as CDGlobal Networks before the acquisition. I suppose we could have said... "Donate to CDGlobal the company that used to host Calguns before all their customers were bought out and removed from CDGlobal servers and put on a whole new hosting platform maintained by GeoVario". yeah... that's a mouthful.

I thought the raffles were run under the presumption that the proceeds would be used to procure equipment for Calguns that Ben would own. Not to pay off Ben's past debts.

Am I missing something here?

[cadillacmike]

I don't think being hosted in the same location, on the same computer etc creates any "ties" between GPal and CGN or anyone else for that matter.

It has been acknowledged by kestryll, and even claimed by Mr Cannon, that Mr cannon was / is at least a part owner / founder of geovario.com and geovario.com hosts both gpal and calguns.

The two servers are on the same subnet, and as i stated probably in the same roomof the same building.

I'll try to distill this:

If person X owns company A and part owns (and was a founder) of company B and company B hosts company A's and C's web servers, then there IS a connection between company C and C through company B and person X.