1911 vs. Glock

[crufflers]

Just judging you by what you posted sport. You said rather than teach a student that is frustrated, you'd just blame the gun. You said a lot of things that were whack a dooo. You said plastic guns were trash and you can shoot anything but you can't teach anything. Keep seething bro, please don't throw that technical word-salad you spewed at a new shooter. Actually teach them what you supposedly know. If you mastered every gun in the world so you can nail bullseyes and you cannot teach those skills or deal with a student that is frustrated to the point where gun safety is a concern because your class is out of control... I agree, do not teach. Do something else that you CAN DO.

I have no problems with nailing the bullseye with anything I pick up and shoot with. 1911, plastic fantastic, revolvers, whatever, they all hit what I aim at. What I have a problem with are people who think that because I can do it, and they can do it too, after years spent developing the skills required, anyone can do it right out of the gate.

Personally, I prefer not having to deal with an angry or frustrated person holding a loaded gun. YMMV

Many of my students come to class with polymer pistols they can't shoot.

It's not the fact that it's plastic, it's the fact that they're just horrible junk from a design and manufacturing standpoint. Ergonomics suck, triggers suck, fit and finish suck.

They are, like most things these days, cheap and disposable, with the emphasis on cheap.

As for the student's, it takes quite a while before they manage to start keeping the sights on the target by the time the gun goes bang instead of drifting low and to the side. Some can do nice groups down there, but that's not where/what they're supposed to be shooting at.

Take a brand new student and a 1911 right out of the box, clean/lube the 1911, give to new student, go shooting and see where their groups end up.

Now do the same with a Glock.

It doesn't even matter which gun the student shoots first, the results will always be the same.

The "better" firearm is the one you can shoot accurately from the get-go no matter what your level of experience is. In all my years of teaching new-to-the-sport students to shoot, it's never ever been something made of plastic.

Wow, you're just filled with loads of wisdom, aren't you.

[norcalAF]

Just judging you by what you posted sport. You said rather than teach a student that is frustrated, you'd just blame the gun. You said a lot of things that were whack a dooo. You said plastic guns were trash and you can shoot anything but you can't teach anything. Keep seething bro, please don't throw that technical word-salad you spewed at a new shooter. Actually teach them what you supposedly know. If you mastered every gun in the world so you can nail bullseyes and you cannot teach those skills or deal with a student that is frustrated to the point where gun safety is a concern because your class is out of control... I agree, do not teach. Do something else that you CAN DO.

but, but, but.... those who can't do, teach

[Snoopy47]

There's still no OP after three days, so it's too bad it's probably a Trolling post.

Otherwise, the original question of which pistol is easier to double tap wouldn't have needed to be between the two iconic argumentative selections. Who's to say there isn't another ideal selection.

*********

Tangentially, I think those guns that are so called more accurate or easier for the new shooter to use are probably masking bad habits more so than other guns. They of course will gravitate to the one that seems to be working out for them, but in the end there's no reason to think they couldn't shoot anything equally well.

[acaligunner]

" GLOCK 45 !! That's the preferred weapon of Drug dealers "

Quote from Gallup New Mexico reservation officer that stopped me.

So, that's something else to deal with if you choose a Glock according to the dork officer.

[bb557]

His reloads suck, so his times fall off precipitously after the sixth round...

[JamesH]

Dafuq happened here?

[Dvrjon]

Dafuq happened here?

Nothing.

Absolutely nothing.

Again.

[rplaw]

That 1st rule of surviving a gunfight is to have a reliable weapon system that will work with the best SD round available, the Glock system is more than proven in that regard.

Glocks also are more trouble free, and has been made to feed today's modern SD round otb, to deny the above is like saying the 1911 is a better modern fighting pistol than the Glock, lol oops my bad.

That Glocks are more "trouble free" than a 1911 is an internet myth often promoted by those who seem to put Glock ownership and glorification ahead of facts.

Then there's something you forgot: The 1911 was designed at a time in our history when fighting was something much more common than it is today. It was designed to be better than the revolvers of the time "at fighting." Glocks and other "modern handguns" aren't designed for that, they're designed for "safety."

[rplaw]

Just judging you by what you posted sport. You said rather than teach a student that is frustrated, you'd just blame the gun. You said a lot of things that were whack a dooo. You said plastic guns were trash and you can shoot anything but you can't teach anything. Keep seething bro, please don't throw that technical word-salad you spewed at a new shooter. Actually teach them what you supposedly know. If you mastered every gun in the world so you can nail bullseyes and you cannot teach those skills or deal with a student that is frustrated to the point where gun safety is a concern because your class is out of control... I agree, do not teach. Do something else that you CAN DO.

Once again, you try to put words in my mouth without any understanding of what I did say. Thus, the failure here is on your end, not mine.

I also noticed you never answered the question on whether you own gunz or not.

What' s interesting is that I liken this conversation to one where you're, say, a track coach at a camp which teaches running. On the first day, one of the athletes comes to practice wearing combat boots instead of track shoes.

Yes, you can teach Mr. Boots to run in his combat boots but don't you think he'd learn to run faster/better if he had shoes designed for running instead of marching? They both support your feet, and you can run and march in either of them, but for "running" you want shoes which will do the job from the get go instead of having to work up just to get to the starting line.

All of that means that if you're going to do something, use the tools that give you the best advantage you can get BEFORE you start training with them. You only have so many hours to train with. Starting with having the best tools will get you to the finish line with the least amount of effort for hour spent, or will get you further along the path with the same hours/effort.

That said, it's your money and time. If you want to waste it by paying dues, there are people out there who are more than happy to take it and praise you for your "progress" and then say "we'll see you next week."

[rplaw]

There have also been cases were 1911 defenders forgot to properly grip ( deactivate) the grip safety, or had their arms disabled ( by fighting off a bg or being shot in the arm / hand ) and couldn't get their shots off using a 1911 platform.

Glocks are ugly , twang shooting pistols, butt they were never made to be pretty, they were made to reliably work when someone chooses them for SD / Combat work.

Just sayin'.

But then again, choose what works for you, trigger no trigger, polymer or whatever , just be ready and train well.

From personal experience , I've been shot at , stabbed , and jumped and you better be ready when it gets real. Good luck.

Horror stories about how things went bad are legion and have no limits on what brand of weapon is used.

Training is key, but you have to train smart. Training smart begins with initially choosing tools that will do the job intended with the least amount of "learning curve." And then practicing with them in ways which aren't being taught today.

Interesting tidbit. One of the MMA guys challenged any/all other discipline martial arts Masters to a real fight. One Master accepted. The MMA guy took him out in 10 seconds (you can watch the U boob video of it). The reason is because the MMA guy FIGHTS and the other guy has a colored belt.

Cross contrast to today's method of teaching people how to shoot where students stand in a line, static, and learn to shoot at a paper target that isn't doing anything. That's fine if you want a colored belt or certificate to hang on your wall.

[crufflers]

That Glocks are more "trouble free" than a 1911 is an internet myth often promoted by those who seem to put Glock ownership and glorification ahead of facts.

Then there's something you forgot: The 1911 was designed at a time in our history when fighting was something much more common than it is today. It was designed to be better than the revolvers of the time "at fighting." Glocks and other "modern handguns" aren't designed for that, they're designed for "safety."

Hahahahahahahahahahah.

Safety Nazi's hate Glocks because they have no manual safety. How many do 1911's have?

Like I said, I have nothing against 1911's - I shoot them. Cool old guns.

I am positive I would love 2011's.

I do dislike FUD and bad teachers, though. However, they do make for great threads sometimes and there has been kind of a dry spell since Socalenthusiast ran away. You seem resilient. You have valid opinions, so let's keep hearing them. You do not seem to have much reading comprehension, but whatever. We all get tunnel vision sometimes when we are having fun on the forums. Keep up the good work, Elmer.

[rplaw]

Hahahahahahahahahahah.

Safety Nazi's hate Glocks because they have no manual safety. How many do 1911's have?

Like I said, I have nothing against 1911's - I shoot them. Cool old guns.

I am positive I would love 2011's.

I do dislike FUD and bad teachers, though. However, they do make for great threads sometimes and there has been kind of a dry spell since Socalenthusiast ran away. You seem resilient. You have valid opinions, so let's keep hearing them. You do not seem to have much reading comprehension, but whatever. We all get tunnel vision sometimes when we are having fun on the forums. Keep up the good work, Elmer.

And around and around you continue to go. Lots of noise and volume, but no substance at all.

I suggest you go shooting but warn everyone first before you go.

[crufflers]

And around and around you continue to go. Lots of noise and volume, but no substance at all.

I suggest you go shooting but warn everyone first before you go.

Sorry it didn't meet your high standards for "substance", Mr. LAW. Ahahahah. I am typing this in a quiet voice.

Have a nice day, Elmer.

[Robert1234]

That Glocks are more "trouble free" than a 1911 is an internet myth often promoted by those who seem to put Glock ownership and glorification ahead of facts.

Then there's something you forgot: The 1911 was designed at a time in our history when fighting was something much more common than it is today. It was designed to be better than the revolvers of the time "at fighting." Glocks and other "modern handguns" aren't designed for that, they're designed for "safety."

There's more than a few people out there who would argue that Glocks their only external safety being on the trigger, and no other external means of making the gun not fire unintentionally are not designed for safety.

Not saying I agree with them, but it's hard to argue that a Glock or other plastic gun is either more or less safe than a 1911. Also hard to argue that a Glock or other plastic gun is more or less lethal than a 1911.

It's also hard to argue that a 1911 has a better trigger, though if you've ever handled a government owned gun, you'd see that this isn't necessarily true. But sink enough money into either and you can have a nice trigger, though they will be different from each other. I'll let whomever the owner is decide which is "best" for him/her.

It can be argued that Glocks or most other plastic guns require less maintenance than a 1911. They're also lighter, and generally hold more ammo (unless you're talking about the 2011 versions of the 1911). Most plastic gun slides, barrels, internals, and any other metal parts are stainless steel, so they're likely less susceptible to corrosion. They're also less expensive, and have a proven track record of running for a lot of rounds.

The old axiom "It's the indian, not the arrow..." applies here, most appropriately.

[TMB 1]

With the revolver the double action is safer with your finger on the trigger before it is cocked vs after it is cocked, because you have to pull the trigger so far before it fires. The Glock is safer with finger on trigger than than a 1911 for same reason, so the DA revolver trigger and Glock triggers are safer for the person being held at gun point than the 1911 with safety disengaged or the cocked revolver, lots of video out there of Police holding people at gun point.