1911 vs. Glock

[Robert1234]

With the revolver the double action is safer with your finger on the trigger before it is cocked vs after it is cocked, because you have to pull the trigger so far before it fires. The Glock is safer with finger on trigger than than a 1911 for same reason, so the DA revolver trigger and Glock triggers are safer for the person being held at gun point than the 1911 with safety disengaged or the cocked revolver, lots of video out there of Police holding people at gun point.

Even safer still is not having your finger on the trigger until you're about to shoot whatever in front of you.

Just sayin'

[TMB 1]

Even safer still is not having your finger on the trigger until you're about to shoot whatever in front of you.

Just sayin'

If that was the case all the time, there would be no need for DA or Glock type triggers on semi autos.

Not having your finger on the trigger could get you killed if bad guy at gun point does not listen.

[acaligunner]

That Glocks are more "trouble free" than a 1911 is an internet myth often promoted by those who seem to put Glock ownership and glorification ahead of facts.

Then there's something you forgot: The 1911 was designed at a time in our history when fighting was something much more common than it is today. It was designed to be better than the revolvers of the time "at fighting." Glocks and other "modern handguns" aren't designed for that, they're designed for "safety."

1) Larry Vickers is a Delta Force commando that is also a 1911 aficionado, and deals and speaks to other 1911 mfg's- Go watch his video on ALL THE MAINTENANCE that a 1911 NEEDS over a Glock, H&K, M&P, FN ~ if you want to live in a dream state that's on you buddy.

It's a proven fact that a Glock or any other modern SD pistol - needs less maintainence and is overall more Reliable than a 1911 pistol. That's a fact.

2) LOL - The 1911 was handmade and NOT DESIGNED TO BE FEED HOLLOWPOINT AMMO, it was originally designed to use Hardball ( FMJ ) rounds only that was standard issue during that time.

It wasn't until modern gun designers in the late '70's and 80's ~ throated and polished the 1911, so that it could feed modern ( at that time ) HP ammo like super-vel , but still the 1911 had issues feeding that SD ammo and of course it was warned NOT to use the 200gr CCI " flying ashtray ".

The 1911 STILL has some issue running modern types of SD ammo, and while the modem 1911 runs well, the original design was made to run with FMJ ammo.

The Glock is a modern SD pistol originally design to meet Military and LE requirements., and in its very early stages was adopted by the Austrian military, and later picked up by LE and military, because of its modern ability to run almost all SD HP's, and FMJ military ammo, with its high capacity, and low maintenance and reliability .

The Glock has also highly influenced mfg's to product polymer framed pistols such as , s&w, fn, cz and others ( even tho H&K produced the 1st polymer pistol ).

Nothing that wrong with the 1911, but it does need more maintenance than modern pistols ( Glock ), is somewhat less reliable with modern SD ammo than a Glock or other poly pistols, is less durable than a Glock ( military arms channel torture testing 1911 ), holds less SD rounds, and is a lot heavier.

All those are positives of the Glock over the 1911.

[crufflers]

Training smart begins with initially choosing tools that will do the job intended with the least amount of "learning curve." And then practicing with them in ways which aren't being taught today.

Are you a lawyer, a cop, a fed, or a Firearms instructor? Or none of those things?

Can you elaborate on that future training you are doing? The training that no one else is doing today. What is no one else teaching today? I think that will lend some substance to this thread. That sounds like a real game changer.

[TMB 1]

1) Larry Vickers is a Delta Force commando that is also a 1911 aficionado, and deals and speaks to other 1911 mfg's- Go watch his video on ALL THE MAINTENANCE that a 1911 NEEDS over a Glock, H&K, M&P, FN ~ if you want to live in a dream state that's on you buddy.

It's a proven fact that a Glock or any other modern SD pistol - needs less maintainence and is overall more Reliable than a 1911 pistol. That's a fact.

2) LOL - The 1911 was handmade and NOT DESIGNED TO BE FEED HOLLOWPOINT AMMO, it was originally designed to use Hardball ( FMJ ) rounds only that was standard issue during that time.

It wasn't until modern gun designers in the late '70's and 80's ~ throated and polished the 1911, so that it could feed modern ( at that time ) HP ammo like super-vel , but still the 1911 had issues feeding that SD ammo and of course it was warned NOT to use the 200gr CCI " flying ashtray ".

The 1911 STILL has some issue running modern types of SD ammo, and while the modem 1911 runs well, the original design was made to run with FMJ ammo.

The Glock is a modern SD pistol originally design to meet Military and LE requirements., and in its very early stages was adopted by the Austrian military, and later picked up by LE and military, because of its modern ability to run almost all SD HP's, and FMJ military ammo, with its high capacity, and low maintenance and reliability .

The Glock has also highly influenced mfg's to product polymer framed pistols such as , s&w, fn, cz and others ( even tho H&K produced the 1st polymer pistol ).

Nothing that wrong with the 1911, but it does need more maintenance than modern pistols ( Glock ), is somewhat less reliable with modern SD ammo than a Glock or other poly pistols, is less durable than a Glock ( military arms channel torture testing 1911 ), holds less SD rounds, and is a lot heavier.

All those are positives of the Glock over the 1911.

I'm pretty sure people were having throating and polishing done to their 1911s before then. I think it was 70s when Colt started sending them out from the factory with the work already done for shooting hollow points, semi wad cutters and FP bullets.

[acaligunner]

I'm pretty sure people were having throating and polishing done to their 1911s before then. I think it was 70s when Colt started sending them out from the factory with the work already done for shooting hollow points, semi wad cutters and FP bullets.

I know that some gun mfg's advised against the use of Hollowpoint ammo in their mfg booklets.

I owned many Springfield 1911's in the early 90's, and I had to send them out to Hoag and King to get then to properly feed hollowpoint ammo.

Massad Ayoob also stated that if someone decided to use SD ammo in a 1911 to use Remington ammo, because the dimension of the bullet was more narrow than other HP's and would better feed in a 1911.

I use to use 1911's and Hi-Powers, but due to the 1911's not feeding SD ammo ( at that time ) reliably - I was in searchof something that would run otb, the 1st and 2nd gen G17 did that, and that's why I switched over to Glock - then I also found H&K.

[Tarmy]

[TMB 1]

I know that some gun mfg's advised against the use of Hollowpoint ammo in their mfg booklets.

I owned many Springfield 1911's in the early 90's, and I had to send them out to Hoag and King to get then to properly feed hollowpoint ammo.

Massad Ayoob also stated that if someone decided to use SD ammo in a 1911 to use Remington ammo, because the dimension of the bullet was more narrow than other HP's and would better feed in a 1911.

I use to use 1911's and Hi-Powers, but due to the 1911's not feeding SD ammo ( at that time ) reliably - I was in searchof something that would run otb, the 1st and 2nd gen G17 did that, and that's why I switched over to Glock - then I also found H&K.

My one and only 1911 is a series 80 Colt government, I bought new in the 80s. It has no problem feeding any of the bullets I mentioned. It has had work on it, but that was just changed, the type trigger, grip safety, hammer, rear sight and to full length guide rod. No throating or polishing

[Featureless]

1) Larry Vickers is a Delta Force commando that is also a 1911 aficionado, and deals and speaks to other 1911 mfg's- Go watch his video on ALL THE MAINTENANCE that a 1911 NEEDS over a Glock, H&K, M&P, FN ~ if you want to live in a dream state that's on you buddy.

It's a proven fact that a Glock or any other modern SD pistol - needs less maintainence and is overall more Reliable than a 1911 pistol. That's a fact.

2) LOL - The 1911 was handmade and NOT DESIGNED TO BE FEED HOLLOWPOINT AMMO, it was originally designed to use Hardball ( FMJ ) rounds only that was standard issue during that time.

It wasn't until modern gun designers in the late '70's and 80's ~ throated and polished the 1911, so that it could feed modern ( at that time ) HP ammo like super-vel , but still the 1911 had issues feeding that SD ammo and of course it was warned NOT to use the 200gr CCI " flying ashtray ".

The 1911 STILL has some issue running modern types of SD ammo, and while the modem 1911 runs well, the original design was made to run with FMJ ammo.

The Glock is a modern SD pistol originally design to meet Military and LE requirements., and in its very early stages was adopted by the Austrian military, and later picked up by LE and military, because of its modern ability to run almost all SD HP's, and FMJ military ammo, with its high capacity, and low maintenance and reliability .

The Glock has also highly influenced mfg's to product polymer framed pistols such as , s&w, fn, cz and others ( even tho H&K produced the 1st polymer pistol ).

Nothing that wrong with the 1911, but it does need more maintenance than modern pistols ( Glock ), is somewhat less reliable with modern SD ammo than a Glock or other poly pistols, is less durable than a Glock ( military arms channel torture testing 1911 ), holds less SD rounds, and is a lot heavier.

All those are positives of the Glock over the 1911.

/thread

[crufflers]

Massad Ayoob also stated that if someone decided to use SD ammo in a 1911 to use Remington ammo, because the dimension of the bullet was more narrow than other HP's and would better feed in a 1911.

Golden Sabers are probably one of two types of .45 ACP HP ammo I have... they feed perfectly in Glocks too.

The Hornady FTX or Flextips are very sharp cones with the red polymer filler... these can feed better in sub-par designs also.

[Robert1234]

If that was the case all the time, there would be no need for DA or Glock type triggers on semi autos.

Not having your finger on the trigger could get you killed if bad guy at gun point does not listen.

Since you have a bad guy at gunpoint, I'm going to assume you have the drop on him and not the other way around. I'll also assume you got the drop on him without ending up in his line of fire. I would argue that you're about to shoot him unless he complies/drops his weapon, so if he gets shot, it's as it should be.

In any event, when confronting an armed adversary, you probably want to avoid doing it in such a way that you end up directly in front of him, or are without cover.

[acaligunner]

Golden Sabers are probably one of two types of .45 ACP HP ammo I have... they feed perfectly in Glocks too.

The Hornady FTX or Flextips are very sharp cones with the red polymer filler... these can feed better in sub-par designs also.

I hear you on that
I have the hst, golden sabers, and gold dots in my Glocks and H&K's.

I do own 1911 pattern pistols, Colt Ace on thru the Gold Cup and some S&W revolvers, but they are in the safe.

[TMB 1]

Since you have a bad guy at gunpoint, I'm going to assume you have the drop on him and not the other way around. I'll also assume you got the drop on him without ending up in his line of fire. I would argue that you're about to shoot him unless he complies/drops his weapon, so if he gets shot, it's as it should be.

In any event, when confronting an armed adversary, you probably want to avoid doing it in such a way that you end up directly in front of him, or are without cover.

Still if that is the case no need for DA or Glock type triggers on a semi auto.

Police have people at gun point all the time, so they might need the extra safety of a DA or Glock type trigger. I was just trying to explain the extra safety in DA and Glock triggers rplaw was talking about. Not having your finger on the trigger of a Glock is just as bad as still having safety on with a 1911.

Me if I had to point my pistol at someone I would most likely be firing so I have no need for a DA only or Glock type trigger on a semi auto pistol.

[crufflers]

I hear you on that
I have the hst, golden sabers, and gold dots in my Glocks and H&K's.

I do own 1911 pattern pistols, Colt Ace on thru the Gold Cup and some S&W revolvers, but they are in the safe.

I have the FTX for a Kahr and 9mm Glocks get 147 grain HST. I have a SA 9mm 1911 and have never even tried it with HST. Range gun.

[Dvrjon]

Then there's something you forgot: The 1911 was designed at a time in our history when fighting was something much more common than it is today. It was designed to be better than the revolvers of the time "at fighting." Glocks and other "modern handguns" aren't designed for that, they're designed for "safety."

No dog in this fight, but, for the Good of the Order...

The truth and history appear to refute your assertions:

Glock History:

Mr. Glock was building the pistol for the Austrian military and law enforcement...

Target Barn item:

Glock Ges.m.b.H. didn’t create their foundational polymer-framed pistol just to see if it could be done. The company was already close to the Austrian Armed Forces when they announced in the early 80s that they wanted a modern handgun to replace their obsolete Walther P38.

The Austrian Armed Forces had several criteria for any handgun they would consider: semi-automatic, for starters, but also chambered for 9mm, able to fire 15,000 rounds without significant wear, and drop-proof at two meters.

Gaston Glock was already an authority on polymers, but he needed outside help to earn the big military contract. He assembled a dream team of Europe’s handgun experts to make a lightweight and economical weapon. It needed to have three internal safeties, a high capacity magazine, and a simple design.

The new Glock 17 was submitted to the Austrian Armed Forces in 1982. They compared it to eight other handguns before adopting it as the P80, ordering 25,000 units.

NPR:

Before starting, he asked gun experts in his native Austria what could be done to improve a handgun for the modern era.

"They said, 'A gun with much larger ammunition capacity, a gun that is much more durable and reliable ... [and] the gun should be easy to fire [and] easy to learn how to use,'" Barrett tells Fresh Air's Terry Gross. "He integrated all of those elements into the Glock, and that's how he won his original contract with the Austrian army."

The original Glock 17, the model adopted by the Austrian army, contained only 36 parts and could hold 17 bullets in its magazine. It didn't have an external safety like other semiautomatic handguns. It also didn't have a decocking mechanism. The result? A lightweight, interchangeable model that could be dropped, submerged and subjected to temperature extremes — and still accurately fire.

In the 1970s Gaston Glock developed grenade castings and machine-gun belt links, and as an expert in polymers he began to use the materials to make knife handles and sheaths. Then in the early 1980s, he decided to see how polymers could be used in the production of a handgun. The result was the semi-automatic Glock series pistol, and it featured a polymer frame...
However, the Glock 17 passed the strict NATO durability test and was selected by the Norwegian Army as its standard sidearm. That put the company and its unique handgun on the road to become the preferred international law enforcement sidearm. While the U.S. military adopted the Beretta M9 to replace the aging Colt M1911 .45 pistol, various Glocks have been the preferred weapon for Special Forces including the U.S. Navy SEALs.

Moreover, the USMC followed by adopting the Glock 19M as the “M007 Concealed Carry Weapon” in 2016 for those Marines who had a need for a compact pistol—such as criminal investigation units and the crews of the HMX-1 helicopter squadron.

Clearly, the gun was designed for "fighting" as it was tailored to the Austrian army and Law enforcement and the design removed the standard "safety" mechanisms of the day.

Best.