Church security team

[SVT-40]

That's for a loaded firearm in a public place... where now adding elements to the original arguement. Yours is true for that situation. We're discussing a church being private property.

You just don't understand the law, and can't seem to grasp the concept of "Open to public access ".

A church IS a "public place". Because it's open to public access. The doors are open. There are no locked gates or doors which limit entry to anyone.

By their very nature, churches invite everyone both on their property, as well as inside the church it's self.

That is the very definition of "Open to public access ".

[TMB 1]

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

[JamesH]

I recognize you folks are super busy bickering at each other. If you could pause for a second and show some support for Assembly Bill 503, that'd be real swell. Thanks.

https://act.nraila.org/actions/campaigns/7557

[Quiet]

I recognize you folks are super busy bickering at each other. If you could pause for a second and show some support for Assembly Bill 503, that'd be real swell. Thanks.

https://act.nraila.org/actions/campaigns/7557

Currently...
AB503 has an Assembly Public Safety commitee hearing date on 01-14-2020.

[ja308]

The State of Kalifornia is the biggest threat to Churches in this state. Even more than the rare case of a church shooter. They are in the process of trying to justify outlawing pastors from speaking up against the Sodomites.

https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2019/june/ca-lawmakers-trying-to-force-pastors-to-preach-pro-lgbt-sermons

It is a wicked sin and God specifically tells us to stand against it. He hates it so much, he sent fire and brimstone at one time. This state is so evil.

Its the mark of a brave preacher who takes on that hornets next of intolerant big mouths !
I do enjoy hearing brave preachers !

[MRWOOD3]

You just don't understand the law, and can't seem to grasp the concept of "Open to public access ".

A church IS a "public place". Because it's open to public access. The doors are open. There are no locked gates or doors which limit entry to anyone.

By their very nature, churches invite everyone both on their property, as well as inside the church it's self.

That is the very definition of "Open to public access ".

You are thinking very broadly... I've attended churches that were in folks livingroom, a church can put someone out, they have a general agreement that everyone is welcome because God welcomed all. Try going to a Muslim church as a Christian and see if you aren't asked to leave... not in every case. Too often we think black and white as if it needs to fit in one category or another. Bottom line the law is contradictory to itself and its not about understanding it's about interpretation of the law. It's argued in court everyday no need to be condescending because of a disagreement.

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[MRWOOD3]

Currently...

AB503 has an Assembly Public Safety commitee hearing date on 01-14-2020.

Thanks

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[MRWOOD3]

You are thinking very broadly... I've attended churches that were in folks livingroom, a church can put someone out, they have a general agreement that everyone is welcome because God welcomed all. Try going to a Muslim church as a Christian and see if you aren't asked to leave... not in every case. Too often we think black and white as if it needs to fit in one category or another. Bottom line the law is contradictory to itself and its not about understanding it's about interpretation of the law. It's argued in court everyday no need to be condescending because of a disagreement.

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Because of the clear separation of*church*and state in the US Government system, there is no example of when a state or federal government will own a*church property. As such, work on*churches*is always*private, commercial work.

A church school is a private school. If the state doesn't own it and the feds don't own it, aka the government, who owns it.. answer is the congregation or specific members. A church can hold service then have a gun safety class right after. A public place doesn't mean just because people are around.

Now you have jumped around a bit with the penal code of knowledge of someone with a firearm in a public space and arresting them based on the suspicion that they had it in that public place you've confused that with a police officer walking on private property and arresting someone on reasonable suspicion. The fourth amendment protects us from that... if you had permission from the congregation or owner then it's arguable that i it's ok but im not an attorney so what do i know.

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[ja308]

Because of the clear separation of*church*and state in the US Government system, there is no example of when a state or federal government will own a*church property. As such, work on*churches*is always*private, commercial work.

A church school is a private school. If the state doesn't own it and the feds don't own it, aka the government, who owns it.. answer is the congregation or specific members. A church can hold service then have a gun safety class right after. A public place doesn't mean just because people are around.

Now you have jumped around a bit with the penal code of knowledge of someone with a firearm in a public space and arresting them based on the suspicion that they had it in that public place you've confused that with a police officer walking on private property and arresting someone on reasonable suspicion. The fourth amendment protects us from that... if you had permission from the congregation or owner then it's arguable that i it's ok but im not an attorney so what do i know.

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Sir IIRC the only place religion or church is mentioned with the constitution is article # 1
" Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment or prohibiting the free exercise..."
As I read that, it would appear to leave lots of room for cities, counties or states, who's citizens desired a public church to do so.

[SVT-40]

You are thinking very broadly... I've attended churches that were in folks livingroom, a church can put someone out, they have a general agreement that everyone is welcome because God welcomed all. Try going to a Muslim church as a Christian and see if you aren't asked to leave... not in every case. Too often we think black and white as if it needs to fit in one category or another. Bottom line the law is contradictory to itself and its not about understanding it's about interpretation of the law. It's argued in court everyday no need to be condescending because of a disagreement.

No "condemnation" of you at all.

You simply refuse to acknowledge the fact that churches are "open to public access".

It doesn't matter if a church can "put someone out or not". Any business can ask anyone to leave as long as it's not discriminatory in nature. In fact anyone in charge of any location can have anyone "put out" as long as it's not discriminatory in nature.

However that doesn't change the fact that the location is "open to public access".


Regarding your bolded statements above. They are in direct conflict with each other.

You can't have it both ways.

All laws are subject to "interpretation". That's a given, however you seem unwilling to even try to understand the very basic definition of "open to public access".

Before anyone tries to interpret any law they must first understand the law.

Your flawed interpretations in this thread are because you fail to understand the law, are ignorant of the law or simply refuse to acknowledge the law.

Earlier in this thread you stated that the Police can't make arrest on private property without a warrant.

You'd need a warrant to arrest someone on private property.

You stated a firearm had to have a round in the chamber to be considered loaded.

And it specifically says loaded firearm... definition of loaded is a round seated in the chamber not in the magazine.

You stated that it was illegal to have a firearm and ammo in the same locked container.

The law works in sections as your transporting it needs to be unloaded, locked in a container separate from ammo. When you step foot on public property again you are then breaking the law if you have not gone back to separating.

All of your above statements and beliefs are 100% wrong.

It's clear that you have made little to no effort to actually understand the law before you pontificate and spread falsehoods related to the law.

[KatMan53]

You have God. I get a little concerned when the Diety doesn't pay attention to what is coming in to His house.

[igs]

You simply refuse to acknowledge the fact that churches are "open to public access".

It doesn't matter if a church can "put someone out or not". Any business can ask anyone to leave as long as it's not discriminatory in nature. In fact anyone in charge of any location can have anyone "put out" as long as it's not discriminatory in nature.

However that doesn't change the fact that the location is "open to public access".

A church may be a public place. But it is also a business. And in most cases it is also private property.

Places of business and private property are exemptions to the law on carrying in public.

26035. Nothing in Section 25850 shall prevent any person engaged in any lawful business, including a nonprofit organization, or any officer, employee, or agent authorizedplace of business, or any person in lawful possession of private property from having a loaded firearm on that property.

25605.(b) No permit or license to purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry, either openly or concealed, shall be required of any citizen of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within the excepted classes prescribed by Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 29800) or Chapter 3 (commencing with Section 29900) of Division 9 of this title, or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, to purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry, either openly or concealedplace of business, or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident.

[igs]

You simply refuse to acknowledge the fact that churches are "open to public access".

Open to public access is irrelevant. Are retail shops open to public access?

We have a policy here that ALL emplyees will open carry - we even practice just in case some low life wants to walk in and take what is not theirs.

[SVT-40]

Most of you really need to read the below info. The info was also listed in post #3 by Kestryll.

It's a legal overview by Chuck Michel on behalf of the CRPA.

https://crpa.org/resources/carrying-firearms-in-church/

Open to public access is irrelevant. Are retail shops open to public access?

Read the below from the first page of the linked document. That should answer your question.


iGENERAL RESTRICTIONS ON CARRYING IN “PUBLIC PLACES” IN CALIFORNIA

As a threshold matter, California law generally restricts the carrying of a firearm, either openly or
concealed and regardless if it is loaded, in any “public place.”1 The term “public place” is defined as any place
that is accessible to the public, including any place open to “common” or “general use, participation, enjoyment,
etc.”2 Such places are not limited to publicly owned property. In fact, private property will be considered a
“public place” if “reasonably accessible to the public without a barrier.”3

For this reason, places of business and parking lots that are open to the public have generally been
labeled “public places,” even if located on privately-owned property.4 A driveway, lawn, or porch of a home
may also constitute a “public place” if readily accessible without a barrier.5

Conversely, locations guarded by some type of barrier, such as a fence or locked door, are not
considered readily accessible and therefore not a “public place.”6 The key is “whether a member of the public
can access the place without challenge.”7 This won’t change simply because the place is visible to the public, or
a door or gate is periodically left unlocked.8

[TMB 1]

Lot of gun shops and pawn shops that are open to public where the employees are open carrying.