Another Appendix holster FAILURE..........

[rugershooter]

For those that train or practice an adequate amount I agree on that.

That's the problem. A lot of people can't or won't train with holsters. Holster use is just as important as tactics and marksmanship, regardless of the type of gun carried.

Training in correct and safe technique and the ensuing weapons manipulation muscle memory make many things possible. The problem is that so many in these forums lack professional instruction and training. Many if not most simply buy guns and watch YouTube and become self anointed experts.

For what it is worth far too many LEO's lack the skills that their job requires as well.. looking at their guns as just another "tool on the belt" that hopefully gets used in periodic qualifying sessions and that's all...

Like I wrote above, training in holster use is just as important as tactics and marskmanship. But most people don't incorporate it into their training, either because they don't care enough or can't do so at the ranges they go to.
Having said that, I've been through enough training and real situations to know that s*** happens and it doesn't always go according to training. Carrying strong side IWB will probably flag your leg at some point, but if s*** happens- like an attempted gun grab, an ND due to the stress/adrenaline/shaking hands- the resulting injury is less likely to be as damaging as an injury in the front. That also doesn't mean that the injury will be an ND; it could be something like getting into a car crash and the lap belt causing blunt force trauma with the gun against your body.

AIWB definitely isn't for people who aren't willing to train and be comfortable with it. Which is probably most people. Since it has become more popular, there will be more accidents, but instead of the "leg crease" at 3 o'clock, you get a hair raising "groin" shot.

You can see that his grey shirt rides down and tucks into the holster at 13-16 seconds into the video.

I do like the tactile feedback of the "Striker Control Device" from Tau.

I think this holds true for any method of carrying a gun. People who aren't willing to put the time and effort into training, in my opinion, shouldn't carry a gun.

[SkyHawk]

Maybe the Glock and the holster both bent/flexed enough to release the sear?

There is no 'sear' persay on the Glock. The Glock cruciform on the trigger bar first has to cock - or load - the striker, before releasing it. That only happens with a trigger pull, which also must happen to disengage the striker block safety.

There are some striker guns that have actual trip sears (like M&P), but the Glock is not one of them.

Pretty safe to say that the trigger was fully pulled, the how of it still TBD.

[200Apples]

Apples

I don't know but it seems to happen a lot with Glocks.

Between "Glock leg" and the recorded instances where people either reaching into their coat pockets for their Glock or trying to grab a falling Glock these ND/ADs are occurring at a surprising rate...

Yodaman

Is it the Glocks fault?

Sincerely, now that I'm not mouthing off about Glocks and now that I have read through this excellent thread, no. I don't think it is the gun's fault...

There are several people here who have posted, more or less, "this may be a software problem", to which I am going to agree. Please see too Skyhawk's post:

Skyhawk

There is no 'sear' [per se] on the Glock. The Glock cruciform on the trigger bar first has to cock - or load - the striker, before releasing it. That only happens with a trigger pull, which also must happen to disengage the striker block safety.

There are some striker guns that have actual trip sears (like M&P), but the Glock is not one of them.

I sit, and not for the first time, corrected. Again, great thread.

[fleetline]

It looks like the guy is wearing some type of motorcycle riding pants, is it possible that something at the fly area could have contacted the trigger. I know the riding pants I used to wear had a buckle to close them.

[G38xOC]

To me, it didn't seem like the firearm wasn't holstered completely. I noticed that when he started to cover with his shirt, it appeared the pistol grip flexed to move outward. Is it possible that when he bent over the the pistol slipped into the holster under the stress and causing the trigger it engage?

I agree here .

[the Scholar]

Really? If you are carrying a concealed firearm you should be able to FEEL it in the holster!!!! A visual check?? Are you sure? Really?

Not sure why you can't visually inspect the holster while you are holstering. I certainly do.

1) Some morons carrying strong side may be flagging their legs / hip reholstering but when doing so, they are pointing the pistol at a far less vulnerable, sensitive and CRITICAL part of their bodies..

Ehh, debatable. I think pointing a gun at any part of your body is almost equally bad. Personally my holster is low enough that doesn't allow any part of "me" to be underneath it so if an ND actually occurred, the round would be sent straight down between my feet. Granted that it would probably still hurt like hell having a 9mm blast right next to my junk.

You have never done any weapons retention training or probably even boxing or martial arts training have you? We are not talking about High School where you get to roll into a ball on the ground and wait until the teacher comes to break up the fight. BTW.....when you are "hunched over", where is the muzzle of that gun pointing??

1) If you are getting beat up chances are you are facing your attacker or you will be as you naturally turn to respond or block the threat with your hands / arms and once you raise your arms, you have no way to protect the gun (strong side carry can be wrested / turned away and you can still use your arms/hands) are you have put it right there in the center of your body to be snatched. You cant turn your hip away from a snatch by a opponent you are facing and thereby limit your opponents ability to access the pistol.
2) Anyone who has ever been in a fight or has been properly trained knows YOU NEVER EVER ALLOW YOUR HEAD TO COME DOWN so that you cant see you opponent, so that you bring your head and face into easy striking distance of your opponents knee, bringing your head down so that your opponent can use his weight and leverage to force you to do a face plant into the ground. To force you onto the ground ON YOUR STOMACH at which time your opponent will pin you to the ground, pinning your gun between you and the ground WHERE YOU CANT GET IT! Bringing your head down and bending over seals your fate as you GIVE control of your body to your opponent and with the AIWC, you lose the ability to access your gun pinned under you much less draw it up and engage.
3) If your opponent is at contact distance, as you reach for your gun, it and your arm can be PINNED against your stomach / chest and then you are wrestling for the gun having given up leverage to you opponent, you are trying to bring the gun up against his weight and leverage to pin it down against you and take or or turn it into you and fire it. Strong side lets you turn your body away from the opponent moving the gun into a harder position to reach and having to get past your hands / arm to get it.

Never been in a real fight. But it just seems logical to me that I have more control of something that is right in front of me verses on my side. I have also been taught that carrying on strong side allows for better retention and control because you can plant your elbow down, yada yada. I have also been taught by cops that do a lot of martial arts and grappling that appendix offers good advantages in terms of control of the firearm as well. Either way, I can be proven wrong as I am not an expert. I have put thought into my gear and choices and typically don't just do the tacticool thing but admittedly it is based on secondhand information.

1) This is why you use a strong side holster with a retention strap; you are able to trap it between your arm and body as you turn to meet the threat, using your entire body's strength to wrest it away from the snatch.
2) Concealment is concealment, printing is NOT against the law and if CCW legally, its a non issue.
3) The weakness of the AIWB system ismad worse by the fact that most all the AIWB holsters I have seen have no physical retention other than light tension or stomach folds.

Retention straps and carrying concealed does not make sense to me. Agreed that most concealment holsters are passive retention, still don't think that's bad if it's properly set and not super light. When I draw, it damn near pulls the holster out, I prefer a good amount of tension.

Few people are trained well enough to overcome the weaknesses of AIWB carry in a CQB situation to make it tactically viable in my opinion. I know I am not.

Maybe, I don't know. I train with it and will continue to do so.


Also, why you yelling dude?

[rugershooter]

Ehh, debatable. I think pointing a gun at any part of your body is almost equally bad. Personally my holster is low enough that doesn't allow any part of "me" to be underneath it so if an ND actually occurred, the round would be sent straight down between my feet. Granted that it would probably still hurt like hell having a 9mm blast right next to my junk.

So you don't think shot placement matters?

[rd2play]

I have never seen a stock Glock trigger in a well-functioning weapon go off by itself. Never!

All that's needed is a properly functioning gun and brain. Everything else, carry style, safeties, steel guns is just personal opinion.

[the Scholar]

So you don't think shot placement matters?

Very fair point. What I meant was that I don't know what's worse, being shot in the hip or getting shot in the tip of the jewels. Both are pretty terrible.

And I did throw my appendix rig on last night to test it out again and I was incorrect in my statement before. Mr. Happy is definitely not confined entirely behind the holster and definitely peaks beneath it in direct path of the muzzle. Although people disagree, I still feel it is an acceptable method of carrying a concealed firearm.

[OCEquestrian]

Very fair point. What I meant was that I don't know what's worse, being shot in the hip or getting shot in the tip of the jewels. Both are pretty terrible.

And I did throw my appendix rig on last night to test it out again and I was incorrect in my statement before. Mr. Happy is definitely not confined entirely behind the holster and definitely peaks beneath it in direct path of the muzzle. Although people disagree, I still feel it is an acceptable method of carrying a concealed firearm.

"Mr. Happy" while so very important to most of us is not anywhere nearly as vital to your remaining above ground as never putting any holes in your femoral arteries that are right down there in the inside of both legs next to Mr. Happy. As I mentioned earlier, you could be in a trauma center surrounded by trauma surgeons ready to go and if you put a round thru a femoral artery, YOU WILL DIE....

[tonyxcom]

And I did throw my appendix rig on last night to test it out again and I was incorrect in my statement before. Mr. Happy is definitely not confined entirely behind the holster and definitely peaks beneath it in direct path of the muzzle. Although people disagree, I still feel it is an acceptable method of carrying a concealed firearm.

Just the tip?

[rugershooter]

Very fair point. What I meant was that I don't know what's worse, being shot in the hip or getting shot in the tip of the jewels. Both are pretty terrible.

And I did throw my appendix rig on last night to test it out again and I was incorrect in my statement before. Mr. Happy is definitely not confined entirely behind the holster and definitely peaks beneath it in direct path of the muzzle. Although people disagree, I still feel it is an acceptable method of carrying a concealed firearm.

If shot placement matters when shooting someone else, it also matters in terms of shooting yourself. You're more likely to hit a femoral artery if you AIWB than you would be if you strong side carry.

[tonyxcom]

Anyone want to address the horse in the room?

The OP, seems to be involved in some kind of equestrian sport. Horse riding is extremely dangerous relative to other sports and even AIWB, about 100 deaths per year actually.

This is not to pick on riding horses, but to point out the irony in how we all do risky things, including driving cars or riding horses, but all of a sudden AIWB is a huge problem.

[Chapped Hide]

Anyone want to address the horse in the room?

The OP, seems to be involved in some kind of equestrian sport. Horse riding is extremely dangerous relative to other sports and even AIWB, about 100 deaths per year actually.

This is not to pick on riding horses, but to point out the irony in how we all do risky things, including driving cars or riding horses, but all of a sudden AIWB is a huge problem.

But he ain't gonna shoot his dick off riding a horse

That's the point of all of this, why you putting your dick in play

[tonyxcom]

But he ain't gonna shoot his dick off riding a horse

That's the point of all of this, why you putting your dick in play

No, he is more likely to get a severe head/neck injury riding a horse than shooting his unit off carrying aiwb.