CCW

[ozarkpugs@gmail.com]

Ok I'm confused csacannoneer seems to be bragging on California gun laws and saying they are laxed , that would not be so surprising if he were not affiliated with the NRA . Let me make this clear ,I'm a member of calgun and have friends in comiefornia ,I don't go on the California site and troll or belittle California because 22 years ago I moved to Mo. and was shocked to find mo. not only didn't let you carry concealed but not even concealed in your car but with a lot of work and demanding our rights we now have cc with out a permit . We did not get that by pretending it was ok for our rights to be violated . Hopefully California will one day enjoy the freedom other states do and I see from some of your posts you are making some progress .

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[CSACANNONEER]

Ok I'm confused csacannoneer seems to be bragging on California gun laws and saying they are laxed , that would not be so surprising if he were not affiliated with the NRA . Let me make this clear ,I'm a member of calgun and have friends in comiefornia ,I don't go on the California site and troll or belittle California because 22 years ago I moved to Mo. and was shocked to find mo. not only didn't let you carry concealed but not even concealed in your car but with a lot of work and demanding our rights we now have cc with out a permit . We did not get that by pretending it was ok for our rights to be violated . Hopefully California will one day enjoy the freedom other states do and I see from some of your posts you are making some progress .

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I'm not bragging about anything. I am simply stating facts. Yes, California gun laws are far from good and constantly getting worse but, that doesn't change the fact that CA does issue CCWs which do allow concealed carry in some GFZs. I'm sorry that you don't like that fact and instead of asking more about it, you have chosen to question my integrity and try to personally attack me my questioning whether I am affiliated in any way with the NRA. Obviously your situational awareness is lacking, just look in my sig line. I am not only an NRA instructor and have volunteered my services for years at CGSSA events like Women On Target, but, if you notice, I have my own link to join the NRA because, I'm an NRA recruiter. So, not only have you shown your true colors by trying to attack me but, you've also proven that you have a lack of situational awareness. Of course, good situational awareness is something anyone who carries a firearm should have so, I suggest/encourage you get some more training and learn more before you decide to CCW or otherwise carry or use a firearm. From what you've shown here, you are not ready or qualified to do so yet.

If you can post any proof to refute any of my statements, including the one that got your panties in a bunch, by all means do so. I'm always open to learning more.

[CSACANNONEER]

Do you realize that you are spouting the same nonsense that the state has been claiming? That the 2A wasn't being denied as it is available in many geographical areas, while pro-2A advocates point out that most of the population is in the counties in which it is difficult or impossible to get a CCW.

Do you realize that I am spouting a fact? I'm not condoning the practice of some IAs to not issue or saying that it is right. I'm doing nothing more than stating a fact to support my earlier claim that it is possible to live in CA and obtain a CCW which allows one to carry in some (not all) GFZs.

[Sixtigers]

Yep. About the same for me in Kern county.

[ozarkpugs@gmail.com]

I'm not bragging about anything. I am simply stating facts. Yes, California gun laws are far from good and constantly getting worse but, that doesn't change the fact that CA does issue CCWs which do allow concealed carry in some GFZs. I'm sorry that you don't like that fact and instead of asking more about it, you have chosen to question my integrity and try to personally attack me my questioning whether I am affiliated in any way with the NRA. Obviously your situational awareness is lacking, just look in my sig line. I am not only an NRA instructor and have volunteered my services for years at CGSSA events like Women On Target, but, if you notice, I have my own link to join the NRA because, I'm an NRA recruiter. So, not only have you shown your true colors by trying to attack me but, you've also proven that you have a lack of situational awareness. Of course, good situational awareness is something anyone who carries a firearm should have so, I suggest/encourage you get some more training and learn more before you decide to CCW or otherwise carry or use a firearm. From what you've shown here, you are not ready or qualified to do so yet.

If you can post any proof to refute any of my statements, including the one that got your panties in a bunch, by all means do so. I'm always open to learning more.

First off my original post did not mention how mo. Cc Gun laws are better than Ark. I was giving them a shout out for the victory of sorts and for the state offering free training . My post did not mention or condem California or any other state . I stand by everything I said . I feel California gun owners pain and pray things get better for them . Also you mentioned California residents of Good moral standing can cc ,does that mean everyone in the non gun friendly zones lack Good moral fiber??? If you reread all posts from the first one you will hopefully see you inserted a misleading statement about Cal into a post praising Ark. Don't feel the need to answer this post as your smugness and assumption I lacked training in cc leads me to believe you are a pompus blowhard who is part of the problem not the solution . OK you can now have the last word and I will not and I'm sure non of your fellow Californians will waste our time commenting back .

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[CSACANNONEER]

I simply stated that even California, with it's anti gun attitude, issues CCWs which allow people to carry in many otherwise GFZs. Since you did not expand on your comment to include exactly what Arkansas is now doing, we have no idea if it's better or worse than what anti gun California has been doing for a long time.

[baggss]

Exactly! If you’re in rural CA you’re in luck if you’re not your completely out of luck. SF Bay Area don’t bother!

I don't know. OC and Sacramento aren't really all that Rural, and event Ventura county has become much more urban in the last 5 years than it was previously (urban crrep from LA County). The fact that CC issuance in SD is going up also kind of kills the whole "rural" idea as well.

Also you mentioned California residents of Good moral standing can cc ,does that mean everyone in the non gun friendly zones lack Good moral fiber???

No. CA law requires the applicant have "Good Cause" and be of "Good Morals". Every Issuing Agency that regularly denies issuance (Red on the map posted by Paladin) uses lack of "Good Cause" to deny. Agencies that have a lower Good Cause standard then use Good Morals to weed out those they don't want to have a CCW or those that don't meet their requirements based on the background check. In most cases the Good Morals clause applies to things like DUIs and other negative LEA interaction that is higher than average.

CSA is correct however, every County Sherriff or chief of Police in this state CAN issue if they desire. CA is a "May Issue" state and the state has delegated the authority to issue down to the local level vice the state level. The fact that standard for issuance is not applied evenly statewide is certainly a problem, is most certainly a violation of any number of civil rights and is definitely unconstitutional. All that being said, one CAN get a CCW in CA fairly easily if one chooses to live in a place in CA where one can be obtained. Not being a CA resident, most of this makes no sense, but it is what it is.

As for your ad-hominem attacks on CSA, I would say that you are certainly "barking up the wrong tree". He is neither smug nor "part of the problem", in fact based on both my personal experience, the experience of a number of friends and co-workers of mine, and the experience of a number of CalGunners that have all gone through his CCW training course, he is actually quite helpful, knowledgably and friendly.

[BigPimping]

Don't get caught doing that in just about all of the Bay Area.

[ACfixer]

I think the map is misleading. I know for a fact that it is in my county.

What county, San Diego or Napa?

[Hopalong]

SLO

[baggss]

SLO

So you disagree with the color for SLO? What do YOU believe it should be? Keep in mind that the map makes the disclaimer that any county may be "off" by one color in either direction. Also keep in mind that others in SLO may disagree with you and we have to consider multiple reports. If all of them are saying one thing and you are saying something different then clearly there is something going on.

Additionally, since my name and POC are all over the map, did you e-mail me? PM me? If so, when? I went through my PMs (over 800) and don't see any from you.

I've sent PMs to the folks in charge here, outlining what is going on with supportive facts. The response was "interesting"

I'm not one of the folks in charge of anything here so that might be a problem...

[baggss]

What county, San Diego or Napa?

Napa seems to be pretty contentious regardless of if its Yellow or Light Red. Lots of arguments made for both.

SD was a recent change, but I wouldn't be surprised if it changes back if we start hearing of more denials again. Lots of reports of approvals by folks who were previously denied. Time will tell if Gore is changing or just playing a game.

[Sticka]

Great map!
Do you have any info on how many permits are approved in each county,
each year?
I tried to google it and I couldn't find it.

Things are slooowly improving.... Just in the past few months, San Diego county (pop. 3.4M) went from light red to yellow. While that is not a shade of green, it is a change in the right direction and gets them halfway to light green.

The average law-abiding citizen in Sac and OC can get a CCW and OC is the 3rd most populous county (>3M).



And it's only good for 2 years.

[baggss]

Great map!
Do you have any info on how many permits are approved in each county,
each year?
I tried to google it and I couldn't find it.

Click on either link in my sig line (1 is the main Map thread here on CalGuns, the other is my website) and you will find a large table that goes with the map. It shows how many permits are active per County. Keep in mind that some of the numbers are several years old, actual numbers have been hard to find since the DoJ stopped reporting them to the public back in 2011.

[ozarkpugs@gmail.com]

I don't know. OC and Sacramento aren't really all that Rural, and event Ventura county has become much more urban in the last 5 years than it was previously (urban crrep from LA County). The fact that CC issuance in SD is going up also kind of kills the whole "rural" idea as well.




No. CA law requires the applicant have "Good Cause" and be of "Good Morals". Every Issuing Agency that regularly denies issuance (Red on the map posted by Paladin) uses lack of "Good Cause" to deny. Agencies that have a lower Good Cause standard then use Good Morals to weed out those they don't want to have a CCW or those that don't meet their requirements based on the background check. In most cases the Good Morals clause applies to things like DUIs and other negative LEA interaction that is higher than average.

CSA is correct however, every County Sherriff or chief of Police in this state CAN issue if they desire. CA is a "May Issue" state and the state has delegated the authority to issue down to the local level vice the state level. The fact that standard for issuance is not applied evenly statewide is certainly a problem, is most certainly a violation of any number of civil rights and is definitely unconstitutional. All that being said, one CAN get a CCW in CA fairly easily if one chooses to live in a place in CA where one can be obtained. Not being a CA resident, most of this makes no sense, but it is what it is.

As for your ad-hominem attacks on CSA, I would say that you are certainly "barking up the wrong tree". He is neither smug nor "part of the problem", in fact based on both my personal experience, the experience of a number of friends and co-workers of mine, and the experience of a number of CalGunners that have all gone through his CCW training course, he is actually quite helpful, knowledgably and friendly.

Did you even bother to read the posts ? He started out with NewsFlash and implied what Ark. was doing was no different than what California already does which is BS . Of course in later posts he did walk it back and say well some areas do let some people but only good moral people and they have to pay for it and pay to be trained . I didn't attack him he attacked me . I'm not trying to argue with anyone but when you go on someone's post and make a blank half true statement then insult them and say they need training not having any clue what my background is what can I think other than pompus blowhard . He stated I probably should not be allowed a CCW because I questioned his false naritive , sounds like something Nancy P or Diane F would say . FACT is California doesn't allow CCW they leave it up to local politions to decide . Free states protect citizens from local government infringement .
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