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  • #76
    audiophil2
    Senior Member
    CGN Contributor - Lifetime
    • Jan 2007
    • 8736

    The issue with IED's is they are hardly ever reported in the media. Actually, 90%+ of incidents are not reported.

    Back when I worked for the Man I trained with a certain EOD unit out in Ca wine country that has tshirts with their logo being a wine bottle with a fuse coming out of it. I was privy to IED related incidents in the bay area counties. Only about 10% of IED related stuff makes it to the news. Most are dry ice bombs but there were a lot of pipe bombs and other serious stuff.

    The explosives the EOD teams mostly use are crazy powerful. I used to make binary explosives that held 1-2 OZ of liguid with a detonator. We put it in duffel bags with apples from the trees on the training grounds. about 75 feet of det cord was needed to keep the apple juice from hitting us and the shock wave was surprising.

    I'm not liking the idea that they used explosives to stop the threat. Without being there I have to give them the benefit of the doubt but I would question if they knew 100% that there were no hostages or bad guys watching but not shooting. We are taught that if we shoot at a threat and the threat stops the attack we cannot continue to shoot or else it is murder. If the bomb detonated and the sniper was not engaging targets I would consider that murder but that is just my opinion and how I was taught I would be tried in court if I shot someone that was not attacking me or stopped attacking me. There are all kinds of judgments where the angle of a bullet wound determined justified shot or murder. How do oyu determine that with a robot that has limited camera view?
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    • #77
      pacrat
      I need a LIFE!!
      • May 2014
      • 10285

      Originally posted by Mentiroso
      No. But I do believe state and federal law prohibits the illegal manufacture of bombs, and I do not believe local law enforcement has the legal right to manufacture bombs (with the exception of federal agencies). So, this is new and dangerous legal area we have entered.

      Again, please understand the difference between explosives and bombs before commenting.
      The definitive difference between an "explosive" and a "bomb". Is the application of the device.

      bomb explodes.

      noun
      a substance that can be made to explode, especially any of those used in bombs or shells.
      Dynamite under a stump, is an explosive.

      Dynamite under a car, is a bomb.

      Here in Ca. just about anybody with a clean record can get a "Blaster's License" from Cal-OSHA. That's right, Cal-OSHA.

      Ever watch "Myth Busters"? They had cops building bombs on there all the time. If it was illegal, I don't think the practice would have continued. ATFE watches TV also.

      Doesn't matter what the turd had been in previous life. Everyone is always remembered by their own last worst act. When he chose to pick up a rifle, load up on ammo, and start shooting US Citizens, in a US City. He chose to become an instant terrorist. Because he wasn't screaming Ala Achbar while shooting doesn't matter. That just means he wasn't a Muslim Terrorist.

      Now he is a "good terrorist", and the world is a better place.

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      • #78
        farmerjoe
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2008
        • 1014

        Originally posted by elSquid
        Cough, cough.



        Anywho, as far as blowing up the Dallas sniper, I've got zero problems with it. The police tried to negotiate, bad guy didn't surrender, no need to put more officers in jeopardy. Boom.

        -- Michael
        Exactly what I was thinking.

        I don't really care what they did to him. Ambushed and killed 5 officers because he was pissed off. Screw the punk.
        Don't know your California Legislators Number?

        http://findyourrep.legislature.ca.gov

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        • #79
          Kowan
          CGN/CGSSA Contributor
          CGN Contributor
          • Jan 2015
          • 1474

          Originally posted by SVT-40
          My dog looked at me funny when I started laughing at that.

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          • #80
            Frotz
            Member
            • Jun 2012
            • 417

            I've seen some speculation that the explosive was a claymore on the end of a stick -- a tactic that has been used in Iraq and/or Afghanistan. That seems like the most expedient way of sending a robot in to deliver a bomb and managing not to blow up the robot.

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            • #81
              avg.joe
              Banned
              • May 2012
              • 51

              I'll just say that Jeff Rense & Jim Fetzer had a great discussion on the topic tonight on the third hour of the Jeff Rense show.

              Its funny how big events happen in Dallas (JFK), & supposedly the guy used an SKS? It looks fishy like many other ones.

              Notice how Hillary & Orlando are out the headlines? Jerry's tools of unconstitutionality too? Off roster, RAW, et al are all against the law. Same as the fun stuff.

              If anyone wants in, why not get together & chip in for a CalGuns Foundation BMP light armor vehicle? I'm in if I get to drive it a few times after making parts & making it work. You can buy in the Czech republic, older ones.

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              • #82
                Bobby Ricigliano
                Mit Gott und Mauser
                CGN Contributor
                • Feb 2011
                • 17439

                The need to quickly neutralize a violent killer trumps the delicate sensibilities and feelings of people watching it on TV in the comfort of their own homes.

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                • #83
                  Mentiroso
                  Senior Member
                  • Feb 2014
                  • 960

                  Originally posted by pacrat
                  The definitive difference between an "explosive" and a "bomb". Is the application of the device.



                  Dynamite under a stump, is an explosive.

                  Dynamite under a car, is a bomb.

                  Here in Ca. just about anybody with a clean record can get a "Blaster's License" from Cal-OSHA. That's right, Cal-OSHA.

                  Ever watch "Myth Busters"? They had cops building bombs on there all the time. If it was illegal, I don't think the practice would have continued. ATFE watches TV also.

                  Doesn't matter what the turd had been in previous life. Everyone is always remembered by their own last worst act. When he chose to pick up a rifle, load up on ammo, and start shooting US Citizens, in a US City. He chose to become an instant terrorist. Because he wasn't screaming Ala Achbar while shooting doesn't matter. That just means he wasn't a Muslim Terrorist.

                  Now he is a "good terrorist", and the world is a better place.
                  This is my argument. I don't mind that they have explosives and use them to neutralize bombs or breach building. I mind that they build bombs to kill suspects.

                  Originally posted by Frotz
                  I've seen some speculation that the explosive was a claymore on the end of a stick -- a tactic that has been used in Iraq and/or Afghanistan. That seems like the most expedient way of sending a robot in to deliver a bomb and managing not to blow up the robot.
                  I have used claymore in Afghanistan. I would have a problem with police officers having a claymore. There is no civilian purpose for such a devastating weapon.

                  Originally posted by Bobby Ricigliano
                  The need to quickly neutralize a violent killer trumps the delicate sensibilities and feelings of people watching it on TV in the comfort of their own homes.
                  I agree if the situation is dynamic, but when you have a static situation with a suspect who has limited ammo. This is SWAT's best case scenario. Because you are LEO, does not give police a free pass over "delicate sensibilities". BUILDING BOMBS TO NEUTRALIZE SUSPECTS WHO HAVE A RIGHT TO A FAIR TRIAL DOES NOT SUPERSEDE THOSE RIGHTS. If the suspect had been killed by a shotgun, pistol, seatbelt, spoon, or cut to death with parking tickets (I know cruel and unusual punishment) I would not have a problem. This is dangerous area we are treading. If this is your argument, than it could be extended to using an armed drone to "neutralize" a high speed chase, or... Imagine the possibilities. Where does that rabbit hole end?

                  I am saying police have many tools at their disposal. Use any of those conventional tools and I have no issue. Building a bomb is not a conventional tool. Police have the responsibility to show restraint and the ambition to go home every night. I certainly do not want to see anymore get hurt, but their employment does not guarantee that.
                  Last edited by Mentiroso; 07-09-2016, 5:22 AM.
                  Antonio Villaraigosa
                  Unemployed Politician

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                  • #84
                    Kokopelli
                    Veteran Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 3444

                    Many law enforcement agencies have an EOD (Explosive Ordinance Disposal) department or bomb squad. Explosives are used to eliminate dangerous items or items too unstable to move.

                    Recently, our local Air Force EOD used over 1,000 pounds of C4 to dispose of a 5 gallon drum of hazardous material. They used that much to obliterate an object down to the molecular level.

                    Robots may also have an attachment to fire a shotgun shell or 50 cal cartridge.

                    I'd like to know if there was enough of the bad guy left to put in a shoe box to send back to his family.
                    If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on earth. - Ronald Reagan

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                    • #85
                      CMBrowning
                      Senior Member
                      • Mar 2014
                      • 918

                      Johnny 5 is ALIVE!!!!

                      There is no problem that can not be solved with plastic explosives.
                      The shooter took himself there. Show no mercy to save lives.
                      Ephesians 6:10

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                      • #86
                        God Bless America
                        Calguns Addict
                        • May 2014
                        • 5165

                        Originally posted by Bobby Ricigliano
                        The need to quickly neutralize a violent killer trumps the delicate sensibilities and feelings of people watching it on TV in the comfort of their own homes.
                        Sure, but if he was holed up in a surrounded, deserted parking structure, then there was no need to quickly neutralize.

                        Remember the rule of law works both ways. The need to quickly neutralize violent people was probably the same thinking that drove Ruby Ridge and Waco.

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                        • #87
                          Carcassonne
                          Veteran Member
                          • Jul 2012
                          • 4897

                          Police have used explosives such as hand-grenades for a long time. Back in the 20's or 30's they were used against some big name gangsters and bank robbers. In the 60's and 70's they were used against some Black militants like the Black Panthers and SLA. A group called MOVE was bombed from a helicopter in the 1980's in Philadelphia.





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                          • #88
                            ARDude
                            Veteran Member
                            • May 2006
                            • 2723

                            This situation was not just a barricaded static suspect. He was violent, uncooperative and an ACTIVE shooter.

                            Once the decision was made to neutralize the situation, it doesn't matter if a team was used to breach the area, or a sniper was used, or in this case an explosive.

                            The result is the same....suspect is neutralized.

                            Some people here think that he should've been waited out, that he has a right to be arrested. Well, that is the suspect's choice. He could have cooperated, but he didn't. He escalated the situation.

                            Wait until he runs out of ammo? If someone attacks your home, are you gonna wait till they run out of ammo? He could have 1000 rounds of ammo easily. That's just 1 ammo can full of loose rounds.
                            Real-life Girls

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                            • #89
                              Jimi Jah
                              I need a LIFE!!
                              • Jan 2014
                              • 19244

                              No due process for the perp. Judge, jury and executioner?

                              Comment

                              • #90
                                dpr
                                Member
                                • Apr 2010
                                • 372

                                So for you guys who against him being blown up, would you have been ok with a police sniper taking him out if they had the chance?

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