Cal Regs

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Legally, you can ship them directly to his FFL. But many FFLs have a policy of only accepting shipments from other FFLs.

[kouye]

So this is what happened to me yesterday...

Bought a 1957 Win Model 94 30-30 cal from the personal collection of an FFL01 holder (he's runs an LGS). His claim was that it had to be DROS'ed and the 10 day wait applied even though I have a C&R Type 03 FFL and COE. He said it was because the rifle was not C&R any more due to the 30-30 cartridge still being in production.

I'm confused, I though the modern cartridge thing only applied to the definition of "antique" firearms.

Money-wise it was $25 for the DROS vs. $19 for self registration, but the point is the 10 day wait.

So, should it have been DROS'd and should I have had to wait the 10 days?

[DerZilla]

No,there is no waiting period if you have your CR and COE.

Yes you still have to go through the DROS. A lot of dealers don't know the new laws.

[TRICKSTER]

So this is what happened to me yesterday...

Bought a 1957 Win Model 94 30-30 cal from the personal collection of an FFL01 holder (he's runs an LGS). His claim was that it had to be DROS'ed and the 10 day wait applied even though I have a C&R Type 03 FFL and COE. He said it was because the rifle was not C&R any more due to the 30-30 cartridge still being in production.

I'm confused, I though the modern cartridge thing only applied to the definition of "antique" firearms.

Money-wise it was $25 for the DROS vs. $19 for self registration, but the point is the 10 day wait.

So, should it have been DROS'd and should I have had to wait the 10 days?

He is confusing antique and C&R. They are two different things. Since he is a 01FFL it should be DROS'd. Since you have a 03FFL and COE the 10 day wait should be waived.
You do not need to self register, that is accomplished by the DROS.

[aal780555]

[kouye]

I figured he was wrong, but since he is retiring at the end of June, I didn't push it. I also need the 10 days to gather up reloading supplies for this caliber...but I am missing out on learning how to tear it down and such.

[vintagerifle]

Ok, so I'm unclear with the new rules this year, maybe you guys can help.
NOTE: My interests are exclusively with old lever action rifles.

My understanding is that within California, no matter how old the rifle, I now need to go through an FFL to buy a lever action rifle correct?

It is also my understanding that if I visit Montana, and find an old lever action rifle at a dealer that I want to buy, I must have it sent to my California FFL, correct?

It is my understanding that I cannot buy a rifle from an individual, out of state, correct?

C

[tonyl]

Hi all -

I am fairly certain this is the case since 01/01/2014 but your help are appreciated.
My understanding a non C&R (FFL03) / COE license carrier can no longer buy C&R long rifle without going through a FFL01 dealer even if the seller has a C&R (FFL03) license. Is this correct?
As much as I want to purchase a rifle from a fellow calgunner, I want to make sure to not make any mistake.
Thanks.

[TRICKSTER]

If the buyer has both a 03FFL and COE then you can still sell C&R long guns to them cash and carry, no 01 FFL required.. It is up to the buyer 03FFL/COE holder to self register it afterwards.

[Flyin Brian]

Ok, so I'm unclear with the new rules this year, maybe you guys can help.
NOTE: My interests are exclusively with old lever action rifles.

My understanding is that within California, no matter how old the rifle, I now need to go through an FFL to buy a lever action rifle correct?

It is also my understanding that if I visit Montana, and find an old lever action rifle at a dealer that I want to buy, I must have it sent to my California FFL, correct?

It is my understanding that I cannot buy a rifle from an individual, out of state, correct?

C

First Q:
If the rifle you are buying was made in 1898 or earlier, it is an antique and you do not need to go through an FFL. The only exception would be buying it from a California 01FFL dealer who entered it in his books for whatever reason, then you would need to DROS it to purchase it. If you are buying from a regular citizen, then you are good to go on an Antique.
Second Q:
If you apply for an 03FFL, you can go to any state and buy a C&R rifle or pistol and bring it back here. You have to mail in a form and $19 to register it after importing it here. Unfortunately, not all out of state dealers/pawn shops/individuals understand the law so you will encounter some idiots who refuse to honor the license, but that is just something you have to deal with. After you educate yourself, you can sometimes persuade other with a little educating... but sometimes they will not listen.
Third Q:
Same as above, if you have an 03FFL you can go out of state and buy a C&R from anyone who will sell it to you... gun store, individual, etc it doesn't matter. You can't buy modern unless you go through an FFL and have it shipped here, etc.

[MosinVirus]

As Flyin Brian said...

I believe you can either transport your curio and relic across state lines and then self register, now even for long guns, or you can mail it to yourself from Montana and still self register.

Reason to get a COE now is that you now have to have both to have rifles shipped to your door step, or to cash and carry. Before it was enough to have an 03 FFL to have C&R rifles shipped, but that is no more.

Flyin Brian, do you know if the mailing part is correct?

[vintagerifle]

First Q:
If the rifle you are buying was made in 1898 or earlier, it is an antique and you do not need to go through an FFL. The only exception would be buying it from a California 01FFL dealer who entered it in his books for whatever reason, then you would need to DROS it to purchase it. If you are buying from a regular citizen, then you are good to go on an Antique.

This is outstanding news, as almost everything I am interested in is 1898 or earlier! Am I required to register the antique in California when I return?

Also, interesting comments on mailing it to myself back in California. That might be preferable to carrying it around in my truck for 3 weeks.

C

[vintagerifle]

Hmm... reading the regs on antiques...
So, for example:
Say a 1886 Winchester dated to 1894, chambered for .45-70 Government
Does that count as an antique? Does the fact that .45-70 ammunition is available disqualify it?

C

[Mssr. Eleganté]

A Winchester Model 1886 chambered in 45-70 and manufactured in 1898 is an antique that is exempt from federal and California dealer transfer requirements. It is also exempt from California's registration law.

A Winchester Model 1886 chambered in 45-70 and manufactured in 1899 is not an antique.

[Flyin Brian]

Hmm... reading the regs on antiques...
So, for example:
Say a 1886 Winchester dated to 1894, chambered for .45-70 Government
Does that count as an antique? Does the fact that .45-70 ammunition is available disqualify it?

C

It is my understanding that the whole "Modern Ammunition" thing only applies to replicas. I have been subjected to this term while attempting to purchase a legitimate antique rifle a few years ago, and I was not prepared to defend my position, so I had to walk away from a good deal because the Seller (an 01FFL gun store) was misinformed on the law. I came home and researched it and figured I would be ready for the next time I encountered this. Unfortunately, I had to refresh my memory again this morning because I had already forgotten the details

I believe this is the relevant code that applies to this term:

pasted from this page on the ATF website: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/col...que-definition

The code I pasted above leads me to believe that the "Modern Ammunition" phrase isn't even in the law, and the "not readily available" thing only applies to whether a replica can be considered an antique, and has nothing to do with a firearm that was made prior to 1899.

Am I interpreting this correctly?