Getting into some lite target shooting in 308, help pick gun!

[TMB 1]

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_59_110/products_id/61810

[ar15barrels]

yeah, not a fan of anything savage.

Ok, so we have established you are looking for a quality rifle.
The key in building a balanced quality rifle is to not spend too much of your budget on any single part of it.
The $500-$600 base price guns will all need a better stock so budget another $150 to $300 there.
You can get into a Remington 700 Police for under $900 which already has a great stock on it.
Decent quality scopes start around $1000 with the Vortex PST 6-24x50 FFP Mrad being the cheapest scope I would recommend to anyone who wanted a quality setup.
Figure on $180 for a set of TPS rings and a 20moa steel base.

To meet your $1300 budget, I would use a Remington 700 SPS varmint and drop it into a $100 Boyds wood stock and put a Bushnell 3-15x40 mildot scope in TPS rings and a steel base.
This would give you a good foundation that you can later upgrade the scope on.

[JMP]

However, for superior Quality I can spend a bit more.

It sounds like you will have to take this route. ar15barrels outlined a solid place to start, but if you want a real shooter, you are going to also need to put on a better barrel. The barrel is the most important part of the rifle to generate accuracy. You will also want to put on a new trigger, especially if you go the SPS route. The nice thing is that good barrels are cheap. You can get a great barrel, finished and installed with brake installation for about $600 for a short action. That's the single best deal of an upgrade in my opinion.

[uaheclipse24]

I went to Cabelas this weekend to see what they had so I could put my hands on some guns. They have a special this week on the Remington 700 AAC tactical 20" Its $633.88 out the door! As I said before I am changing the stock, so the stock is meaningless to me. I can get an MDT LSS new for about $300 from a guy I know or get the Archangel for about $250.

I also saw the new Ruger Precision Rifle. Its nice, but a tad heavy. I also dont know about the barrel quality. They had it for $1150, plus tax.

I still think I'm probably going to go with the 700. I did have a scope for it, but found I do not like it and sold it back to my buddy. I'm looking at the Bushnell Elite 4.5-30x50, I sold some stuff on ebay and my budget went up to about $1600 now.

[ar15barrels]

I'm looking at the Bushnell Elite 4.5-30x50

Don't bother with the 4.5-30.
A bunch of guys in our precision rifle club tried that scope and the glass does not hold up past about 22x power.
You would do better with a Bushnell 3.5-21 for less money.
Once you actually shoot the rifle, you will find that you spend most of the time around 15-20x anyways.
There is very little gained going from 20x to 30x magnification.

[JMP]

Don't bother with the 4.5-30.
A bunch of guys in our precision rifle club tried that scope and the glass does not hold up past about 22x power.

This can be expected with any scope that runs magnification past 20x without increasing the size of the objective lens to at least 56mm. Look at the exit pupil specs. If the exit pupil gets to small on the high end, expect darkening. The only time you can use higher magnification without sufficient exit pupil is on some of the benchrest scopes where the rifle is set still again a still target so you can more easily get your eye alignment and relief perfect to avoid the darkening.

The 4.5-30 was put in the same body as the 3.5-21, which was a mistake in my opinion. the Bushnell's geometry supports the 21 power but not above that. they should have redesigned the scope like the way vortex did on their generation 2 with a larger objective lens to get the higher power.

with that said, if you want higher magnification you certainly can get it, but I would go to a scope that has a larger objective lens, commonly 56 millimeters is a standard size.

however, my larger concern is that it seems that you are gravitating toward rifle models that have a 20 inch barrel. this is a catastrophe in 308 if you plan to shoot farther because the round simply lacks velocity.if you want a short barrel, 24 inches is about the minimum for 308. even at close distances where they will work, I still don't like the short barrels as I want to get at least 2800 feet per second for my projectile.

[russ69]

...I'm looking for a gun capable of sub MOA out of the box and have a $1300 MAX budget with scope, gun, and accessories...

Why do I always end up spending 3X that?

[NorCalFocus]

Why do I always end up spending 3X that?

Because that's what it really cost. Yet I was told I was wrong for telling someone that you need at least a $2k budget to get started in long range.

[JMP]

Because that's what it really cost. Yet I was told I was wrong for telling someone that you need at least a $2k budget to get started in long range.

Honestly, the reason I think you are wrong is that is overly optimistic. It's $2k if you get a very good deal on used items. Otherwise, you'll end up spending more.

People that are realistic understand how much shooting rifles costs. There's just so much other equipment in addition to just the rifle. If it is your first rifle, one has a list of other crap like bipods, shooting mats, range finders, spotting scopes, chronographs, etc., etc., that cost tens of thousands of dollars, but it will generally be acquired over years of practice.

Then, for people that actually shoot, they'll spend the most money on ammunition to shoot the rifle. People look at the price tag of just a bare cheapo rifle for $500, then they start thinking that $1000 or $2000 starts sounding reasonable. It is if they don't plan on shooting and just want to own a rifle.

A lot of it boils down to how serious one is about rifles. I see folks show up to the range in pimped out SUVs that cost $80k then they shoot crap like Savages or Rugers with Chinese optics.

It just boils down to priorities, and that is different for every person. Some people have truly limited means and really need to scrape by to shoot. I see this a lot for students or jobless. But, realistically, most folks should just pony up a few thousand for good gear. Otherwise, if you get into it, you just end up with a back room of your house filled with useless junk. You get what you pay for, and you always save money in the long run if you get something better up front.

My recommendation for those starting out is to just get an Accuracy International rifle with a Schmidt & Bender scope. The rig won't be cheap, but if you decide you don't shoot enough to justify it, then you can sell it and get most of your money back. If you get some $500 made in China scope, it'll be worth $0 once you get it and find it doesn't hold a zero. That's my recommendation because the AI rifle and Schmidt scope, on average, are what most folks really like out of the box. It is a bad idea to start fully custom when you do not know what you want as all the custom work you pay for usually cannot be recouped financially.

It isn't being a snob, it's just reality and not wasting money and time. There are no free lunches. I say start with the best you can get that is in factory configuration, then move on to custom type stuff when you know exactly what you want.

[rbduffer]

they shoot crap like Savages or Rugers

Ouch!

It just boils down to priorities, and that is different for every person

Much nicer.

[rd2play]

If you are not looking for a competition rifle, I don't know how anyone can discount Savage. I have a model 10, 24" barrel and 1000 yards shots are not a problem. I go out to 1500 with my reloads. I have a Horus reticle on it, which was more than double the rifle, but you need the elevation/hold for those shots. I also have a better stock, which was also more expensive than the rifle. However, 600 yards with the original stock is easy.

[JMP]

If you are not looking for a competition rifle, I don't know how anyone can discount Savage. I have a model 10, 24" barrel and 1000 yards shots are not a problem. I go out to 1500 with my reloads.

That's impressive. Which chambering did you get to make it out to 1,500 yards in a 24" barrel?

[rd2play]

That's impressive. Which chambering did you get to make it out to 1,500 yards in a 24" barrel?

The rifle is stock, no chambering. Impressive, or rather lucky Obviously, at that range you are at the mercy of the wind, but with good wind it's doable... I used the Berger 185 Juggernaut with 47 grain of Power Pro 2000-MR. I could go a little higher than 47, but I haven't tried it yet.

[BillyGoatCrawler]

I have a model 10, 24" barrel and 1000 yards shots are not a problem. I go out to 1500 with my reloads.

That's impressive. Which chambering did you get to make it out to 1,500 yards in a 24" barrel?

The rifle is stock, no chambering. Impressive, or rather lucky

This is about to get good.

[rd2play]

This is about to get good.

Easy to figure it out. Go out and shoot. I don't claim to be a great shot, but I know I hit the steel target at 1500. Not every shot, but some. As I said, maybe luck.