VP9 Hype

[static2126]

My Sig p320 trigger was terrible, light pull but then the wall was heavy. Shooting at speed, the trigger didn't feel good, the reset was ok, but nothing special. I don't have much more as the gun felt wrong for me.

Had an Apex FSS M&P I could outshoot most other people with 1911's, gun never felt right either for the 3 years I had it, so I sold it.

[_TomT_]

My Sig p320 trigger was terrible, light pull but then the wall was heavy. Shooting at speed, the trigger didn't feel good, the reset was ok, but nothing special. I don't have much more as the gun felt wrong for me.

Had an Apex FSS M&P I could outshoot most other people with 1911's, gun never felt right either for the 3 years I had it, so I sold it.

APEX don't make triggers for the Glock do they?

[ParadigmShift]

Also a note on the plastic guide rod. Like I mentioned above, a Glock recoil assembly costs $8. EIGHT BUCKS. Seriously, if you put 10k rounds in your gun per year, spend the 8 bucks per year and stop worrying about it!

No thanks, I'd rather not have to worry about replacing a potentially failing part every year/ every couple of years, whenever. You can turn a blind eye to it if you want, but I wont. Ask yourself why third party manufacturers exist that machine steel guide rod replacements for Glock and Walther and HK doesn't.

[jonzer77]

No thanks, I'd rather not have to worry about replacing a potentially failing part every year/ every couple of years, whenever. You can turn a blind eye to it if you want, but I wont. Ask yourself why third party manufacturers exist that machine steel guide rod replacements for Glock and Walther and HK doesn't.

So get a steel replacement part. Problem solved.

[static2126]

APEX don't make triggers for the Glock do they?

Don't think so..I like the Glock trigger..but it's not amazing..it's a good self defense trigger and super reliable (older Gen 3's). I think Apex had to make an M&P trigger as the stock one (esp in earlier models) was just so sh*tty.

My Shield has an amazing stock trigger. I don't want the Apex for my no t/s shield (getting a second non cali one with TS for range practice, don't anticipate changing that trigger either).

I wouldn't buy a newer Gen 3 as I had issues with one too (though the apex extractor resolved that issue). Glocks are average guns....great for the price and lots of fond memories for me, but striker fired technology has def moved on.

[ParadigmShift]

So get a steel replacement part. Problem solved.

OR . Get a VP9 in the first place. Problem solved.

[_TomT_]

No thanks, I'd rather not have to worry about replacing a potentially failing part every year/ every couple of years, whenever. You can turn a blind eye to it if you want, but I wont. Ask yourself why third party manufacturers exist that machine steel guide rod replacements for Glock and Walther and HK doesn't.

Why Chinese aftermarket manufacturers produce oversized mufflers for Honda Civics? Because people buy them.

Don't get me wrong I love the guide rods on my G17, VP9 AND USP45. But I honestly don't think plastic ones are that prone to fail, and if they do fail won't do permanent damage to a firearm.

[static2126]

Why Chinese aftermarket manufacturers produce oversized mufflers for Honda Civics? Because people buy them.

Don't get me wrong I love the guide rods on my G17, VP9 AND USP45. But I honestly don't think plastic ones are that prone to fail, and if they do fail won't do permanent damage to a firearm.

Agreed for normal shooting don't think the plastic guiderod will be an issue....certain corner cases will exist of course.

[tacticalcity]

For myself it's a couple sets of criteria (after reliability) of course.

1) Accuracy. Any full sized pistol has to be able to make headshots at 25 with slow aimed fire (standing off hand). That means 50 rounds, no outside of the head fliers. Granted any modern day pistol can do this, but for this one gun to shooter fit matters.

I can do this with my glock19, ppq, or VP9. Find it easiest with the PPQ personally. The G19 is the first gun I got good enough with to do it consistently with, so it will always have a special place. Obviously this drill is a lot easier with an Accushadow or a P210..ha

2) The little button sized shootnsees (set up 10 of them on a target at 10 yards), 3 rounds each. If I hit 6 out of 10 within 3 shots each, I'm happy. I'm better at this with a G19 vs a Vp9, though I expect that to change as I have many more rounds through the G19.

3) Times splits for some drills (bill drill, if availiable the defoor tests, etc)

I'm best at all of the above drills (except noted above) with a PPQ, then a VP9, then my G19's despite having the most trigger time on a G19. I'm very interested in shooting my Shield on the above drills and seeing how it fares. My first 35 rounds with it exceeded my expectations (pic is in attachment form in XD vs Shield thread)

I have a buddy who's an very mediocre shooter, he is significantly better with a PPQ than anything else he owns, that trigger is almost like cheating at times).

I have personally owned Gen 4 G19's that made me diversify from Glock. Will always keep my Gen 2 and Gen 3 G19 however

I actually completely dismiss the accuracy at slow fire when deciding if a gun is good for me. I am much more concerned with accuracy under timed, realistic combat conditions. A lot of guns will shoot wonderfully in slow fire, but have design features that make firing at speed very difficult to master.

For example, with slow fire I was EXTREMELY accurate with the M9. But under realistic timed conditions that super heavy DA pull and super light SA pull mess people up big time.

That is the reason why a light/short pull and short reset matter to me. They really help you out when firing at full speed.

The Glock is an example of a gun that a lot of people struggle with when it comes to slow fire accuracy at first, but once they start taking some courses and get into shooting at full speed (control pair or non-standard response from the holster in under a second) they begin to do really well with it. That type of shooting is where the Glock shines. And since that is what I am into, that is why I enjoy it so much.

But a lot of people will never go there. So for them, they just don't see the appeal. But that is were all striker fired guns tend to shine. So I don't get why they would prefer striker fired, but hate on the Glock.

[jonzer77]

OR . Get a VP9 in the first place. Problem solved.

Then you are stuck with the second best striker fired trigger. It's easier to just get a metal guide rod

[static2126]

Then you are stuck with the second best striker fired trigger. It's easier to just get a metal guide rod

Winner

[tacticalcity]

Don't think so..I like the Glock trigger..but it's not amazing..it's a good self defense trigger and super reliable (older Gen 3's). I think Apex had to make an M&P trigger as the stock one (esp in earlier models) was just so sh*tty.

My Shield has an amazing stock trigger. I don't want the Apex for my no t/s shield (getting a second non cali one with TS for range practice, don't anticipate changing that trigger either).

I wouldn't buy a newer Gen 3 as I had issues with one too (though the apex extractor resolved that issue). Glocks are average guns....great for the price and lots of fond memories for me, but striker fired technology has def moved on.

Ghost makes them, Zev makes them. Other companies do as well.

I would only run an aftermarket trigger in a competition or target gun. Not your HD or SD gun. If you really feel the trigger is so bad you have to replace it, then it should not be your first choice for an HD gun.

I am glad you like your Shield. If it works for you man, that is all that matters. So don't let my comments bother you. We all have our own quirks. That's why they make so many different models of guns. No two people are alike.

As for the Glock Gen 3, I don't think it was APEX making that extractor. As far as I know they have been S&W specific. Might have been Ghost, Zev or somebody else specializing in Glocks.

[static2126]

I actually completely dismiss the accuracy at slow fire when deciding if a gun is good for me. I am much more concerned with accuracy under timed, realistic combat conditions. A lot of guns will shoot wonderfully in slow fire, but have design features that make firing at speed very difficult to master.

For example, with slow fire I was EXTREMELY accurate with the M9. But under realistic timed conditions that super heavy DA pull and super light SA pull mess people up big time.

That is the reason why a light/short pull and short reset matter to me. They really help you out when firing at full speed.

The Glock is an example of a gun that a lot of people struggle with when it comes to slow fire accuracy at first, but once they start taking some courses and get into shooting at full speed (control pair or non-standard response from the holster in under a second) they begin to do really well with it. That type of shooting is where the Glock shines. And since that is what I am into, that is why I enjoy it so much.

But a lot of people will never go there. So for them, they just don't see the appeal. But that is were all striker fired guns tend to shine. So I don't get why they would prefer striker fired, but hate on the Glock.

Agree slow fire is not end all be all, otherwise I'd carry one of my P210s.....lol. It is valuable though imo.

Shooting at speed from "social use distance", the PPQ and Vp9 are both still faster for me and more accurate vs the G19.

[static2126]

Ghost makes them, Zev makes them. Other companies do as well.

I would only run an aftermarket trigger in a competition or target gun. Not your HD or SD gun. If you really feel the trigger is so bad you have to replace it, then it should not be your first choice for an HD gun.

Agreed on this. Modern Service Weapons had a great writeup on guys sacrificing reliability for better trigger and how it's a horrible choice.

[ParadigmShift]

Then you are stuck with the second best striker fired trigger. It's easier to just get a metal guide rod

Haha I am an unapologetic HK fan(boy) you could say. But in all seriousness I prefer VP9 trigger over PPQ. Yes PPQ breaks cleaner (negligibly so) and PPQ resets sooner (but not by much - I can double tap both guns like a beast). I like my VP9 trigger because it has shortest travel distance to BANG / breaks first, that criteria is most important to me.