Open Carry Story...

[Saigon1965]

Welcome, you know all noobies have to buy a round.

Dude, you gonna open carry in Oaktown? With the mag in place I hope.

So I've been a lurker here for a while, but I wanted to post and say that I really respect your courageous actions! I'm planning on getting my first gun this summer, and will be doing my own local research about open carry. I suspect there are a multitude of ordinances regulating OC in Oakland, but I won't know till I check. Thanks again for standing up for our rights!

[razorx]

This seems to support the position that there is something to gun ownership/carry which is a key part of LE group identity to where no other group should have that same characteristic. Which is probably why the old-timers feel more threatened by it than others.

I really did not like hearing multiple officers wanting to arrest without a clear understanding of the law behind it and just let the DA sort it out. That is indicative of arrogance/ignorance/laziness going too far. Good that one LEO was actually worth his pay, the others need to be fired or at least offered a retirement package.

The only way officers are going to be trained on Open Carry is to fund an educational effort to do so. Probably should be tied in with Calguns Foundation educational efforts.

Good test case and valuable for understanding the attitudes that are prevalent out there.

So, it sounds like a Gun Pride March should be organized.

Something about that sentence doesn't seem quite right...

[Rob P.]

Let me add my appreciation to the hordes. I have recently been reading about the LA pioneers on the opencarry.org forums with great interest.

I, too, cannot get my head around "car carry." I think the law that states one should keep their firearm in a locked container, separate from ammo, only applies to concealed, i.e. out of plain sight, in a bag (thus a catch 22). As long as there is not a round "capable of being fired" attached to the gun, it is OK to keep carrying in the car? So I imagine the glove compartment would be considered "concealed"...?

Would someone kindly address this?

You cannot carry a loaded firearm ANYWHERE it would be illegal to discharge that firearm. This means no LOADED carry in the car since you cannot legally discharge a firearm from a car.

You cannot carry either a loaded or unloaded firearm in a school zone. Since you can potentially drive past/through many school zones, it would be unwise to have a firearm which is not locked up in the car unless you positively know that you will not be in a school zone.

Personally, I would not openly carry a firearm in my car. Notice that I DO carry openly every day yet I STILL would not do this. Have the firearm locked in a gun rug on the seat in a plain canvas bag/carryall if you need to but keep it locked up. BTW, the law expressly says that putting a firearm into the glove box or center console is not a "locked container" AND it will be considered "concealed" without a permit because it does not fit within the exceptions. Sounds like you need to read the law and get a bit more familiar with it before you venture outside.

[razorx]

... Maybe you could carry a bit around the area where you work just to get the word out, as it were.

Was thinking the same thing, however, I now believe that would be socially disturbing to LEOs since he is not one of "them" and it would just come across negatively.

[trinydex]

does 12031 cover the instance when you have to use your open carry weapon? the time when you load it, fire or subdue/restrain someone until the police arrive.

and about national parks

CCR Title 14, Div 3, Chap 1, s 4313 (a) Cannot carry in a State Park, loaded or unloaded. However firearms may be
possessed within temporary lodging or a vehicle when unloaded and “packed, cased, or stored in a manner that will
prevent their ready use.”

so if someone did pacific crest trail hike... and wanted some bear/lion protection, how would they do that?

[trfcrugby]

What about the 1000 feet from schools rule? I work in Manteca and there are schools everywhere.

[MudCamper]

does 12031 cover the instance when you have to use your open carry weapon? the time when you load it, fire or subdue/restrain someone until the police arrive.

and about national parks...

12031 does in fact have exceptions for loading your firearm when you need to. I have included those in the flyer.

(j) (1) Nothing in this section is intended to preclude the carrying of any loaded firearm, under circumstances where it would otherwise be lawful, by a person who reasonably believes that the person or property of himself or herself or of another is in immediate, grave danger and that the carrying of he weapon is necessary for the preservation of that person or property. As used in this subdivision, "immediate" means the brief interval beforeand after the local law enforcement agency, when reasonably possible, has been notified of the danger and before the arrival of its assistance.

(k) Nothing in this section is intended to preclude the carrying of a loaded firearm by any person while engaged inthe act of making or attempting to make a lawful arrest.

In National Parks, you are screwed. Just have to let that mountain lion eat your kid.

[MudCamper]

What about the 1000 feet from schools rule? I work in Manteca and there are schools everywhere.

No. Handguns must be locked up within 1000 feet of a school.

[Liberty1]

No. Handguns must be locked up within 1000 feet of a school.

And "knowledge" is an element of this crime so NEVER admit even knowing of this PC section. If you don't know the section (626.9) you can't know the definition of "school zone" and therefor can't have knowledge that you are in one even if you're standing in front of one. So to be safe avoid it but don't ever convict yourself by opening your mouth as a prosecutor must prove you knew or should have reasonably known you were in a school zone. This is why I don't like having 626.9 printed out on an OC flyer in you back pocket for the police to see as you have now just provided evidence of a felony if you are in a school zone and should have reasonably known based on your knowledge of the PC as evidenced with your own OC flyer! Be careful...but it would be nice to have a test case challenge this law!

[trfcrugby]

I teach in Manteca, and there are schools on damn near every corner in that little town. Target is about 2000 feet from an elementary school, so you would have to be careful when leaving. Don't forget about the Catholic private school on Sutter, and the Voc-Ed campus across the street, which effectively shroud parts of Main street in a school zone. Then there's Calla, the continuation school the opposite way of Target. Ugh.

It's like navigating a damn mine field.

[Liberty1]

This means no LOADED carry in the car since you cannot legally discharge a firearm from a car.

Yes and no the car is not an element of the crime. Only if that car is on a public roadway or highway.

374c. Every person who shoots any firearm from or upon a public
road or highway is guilty of a misdemeanor.

As public road and highway are not defigned in the PC I've copied the state VC definitions as they are likely to be used by a court:

527. (a) "Road" means any existing vehicle route established before
January 1, 1979, with significant evidence of prior regular travel
by vehicles subject to registration pursuant to Article 1 (commencing
with Section 4000) of Chapter 1 of Division 3; provided, that "road"
does not mean any route traversed exclusively by bicycles as defined
in Section 39001, motorcycles as defined in Section 400,
motor-driven cycles as defined in Section 405, or off-highway motor
vehicles as defined in Section 38012.
(b) Even though nature may alter or eliminate portions of an
existing vehicle route, the route shall still be considered a road
where there is evidence of periodic use.
(c) A vehicle route need not necessarily be a publicly or
privately maintained surface to be a road, as defined, for purposes
of this section. Nothing contained herein shall pertain to any
property in an incorporated area or properties held in private
ownership.

360. "Highway" is a way or place of whatever nature, publicly
maintained and open to the use of the public for purposes of
vehicular travel. Highway includes street.

[Heatseeker]

4th Seal, I've been following this story in amazement. As has been mentioned previously, you've got lead stones my friend. +1 for standing up for your rights within the law! Maybe sometime I will sprout the nads it takes to OC in my neighborhood.

I'd like to buy you a beer and shake your hand! Being that I'm in Lathrop, it wouldn't be too tough to meet up for one or two sometime.

Keep up the good fight!

[SONYEXEC]

4thSEAL, great write-up and follow-up! I have learned some pretty interesting things reading all the corresponding posts. I even learned that there was a OC forum floating around with great info on it. If you ever find yourself in legal trouble I'll be the first to send over cash for your legal defense fund (I'm not being sarcastic, totally serious). Many of us, myself included, sit on the sideline but you're out there fighting the good fight. Keep us posted.

NANOOK, if your going to carry in your car one day check these out. I bought 2 and they're great. PS If a cop asks, your answer is "I'm not giving consent to a search of any kind". then get ready for the "what do you have to hide" line of questioning

http://www.center-of-mass.com/

[tgun]

Next time, grow a mustache and everyone will assume that you are off-duty.

[Soldier415]

Next time, grow a mustache and everyone will assume that you are off-duty.

And offer "mustache rides"...should do the trick