Open Carry Story...

[Crazed_SS]

I have a friend that works LAPD. He told me before that in the academy they were all told OC is legal. They can hussle you a little but no crime is being commited.

About the part of loaded or being within a certain reach... I never heard about that but i will ask in class tomorrow. My professor is retired from LAPD and worked 20yrs as a Field officer. So i m sure his answer will be accurate.

I've asked my friend who recently became a San Diego Sherriff's Deputy about open-carry several times. He always says that they were taught that it's legal, BUT a loaded mag in close proximity = loaded weapon.. Seems like the Manteca cops thought the same thing but decided to give the OP a break.

[halifax]

I've asked my friend who recently became a San Diego Sherriff's Deputy about open-carry several times. He always says that they were taught that it's legal, BUT a loaded mag in close proximity = loaded weapon.. Seems like the Manteca cops thought the same thing but decided to give the OP a break.

I'm uncertain about "close proximity" but I believe the ammunition can't be connected to the firearm in any way. That raises the question about speedloaders/mags connected to a belt that also has the holster/gun connected to it. Doesn't it?

[CitaDeL]

I've asked my friend who recently became a San Diego Sherriff's Deputy about open-carry several times. He always says that they were taught that it's legal, BUT a loaded mag in close proximity = loaded weapon.. Seems like the Manteca cops thought the same thing but decided to give the OP a break.

You really think the Manteca PD out of the goodness of their hearts cut the OP a break? Perhaps a second read through of the story is in order. It seems plain to me that given the opportunity the police would have been happy to hook him up on any charge they thought they could make stick... However no arrest was made, no charges applied... The reason is simple- the OP is not a member of a criminal gang and was not commiting a felony at the time he was peacably carrying his exposed firearm, so he could therefore lawfully be in possession of both the sidearm and the ammunition.

This is about the fifth recorded time there has been police interaction with gunowners who have chosen to open carry in California- all of whom had ammunition in their possession during contact. NONE of them have been arrested for this loaded mag + gun in possession = 'loaded weapon'. Is this just a coincidence that we all have been cut a break by good natured law enforcement officers? I dont think so.

[Army]

Heck, I'm willing to give it a go when I get home to SLO. I think I'll get more hassle from my wife than the Cops though

[supersonic]

Heck, I'm willing to give it a go when I get home to SLO. I think I'll get more hassle from my wife than the Cops though

+1 on that, except [insert] 15-yr-old kid [insert] HERE in place of wife. (got rid of her years ago!!!!)

[JTROKS]

a city that is notorious for being partial to only close friends/political $$ contributors of the Sheriff, and is therefore (for law-abiding, "regular" citizens w/ a good enough cause in many other counties & every "shall issue" state) an essentially"shall not issue under any reasonable circumstance" city/county.

I bet they'll approve Rosie Odumbo, Dianne Freaginsteine and the rest of the gravy bunch if they applied for one. Where does it state that we can only be armed in our own property? When the foundations that brought this great nation to where it is at starts crumbling... What will happen?

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." (Second Amendment to the Constitution.)

[Bizcuits]

Might just go back to my taser. Not sure.

You did an awesome job, you made one of many steps in the movement for CCW and open Carry. I hope you continue to open carry, as your inspiring many others!

[Pokey]

This brings up the question...

First off kudos to you.
That said I am curious, do you disarm and lock it up while driving? A am somewhat shamed to admit that I do not 'definately' know the legality of having the pistol not locked up in the car. Also the other issue brought up of school proximity. Another thought is the disturbing the peace angle. I think your actions and handling of the situation are great, just curious on a few issues.

Thank you

[CaliAgent]

Good for you 4th Seal I wish the San Diego PD was smart like your local police.
I was told the same thing about a firearm being close to a load mag = loaded firearm. This was from the guy at the local range. I had loaded mags in my rangebag and was going through my bag to get my eye & ear protection out before I went in to the range. So I put my rangebag on the counter and opened it up and the employee saw my loaded mags and he asked me if I was a LEO and I said "no" and he said well just for your safety a police officer will considered that a loaded gun.

I've asked my friend who recently became a San Diego Sherriff's Deputy about open-carry several times. He always says that they were taught that it's legal, BUT a loaded mag in close proximity = loaded weapon.. Seems like the Manteca cops thought the same thing but decided to give the OP a break.

Does anybody have any info on what happened in oceanside with the off-duty SDPD officer shooting a mother and her 8 y/o son in a Lowes parking lot?

here's some links to the story:

http://10news.com/news/15640778/detail.html

Considering how the officers in San Diego County are acting lately when they are OFF-DUTY I don't think I would try to open carry in any part of San Diego County because you will get shot. The D/A in San Diego has alway cleared and justify every officer involved shooting. There was one year I think though that all justified officer involved shootings that resulted in death they got sent up state for higher review by the AG's office because there were soo many of them. I will try to find more info on that later. I would hate to see what would happen if the office was on duty during his efforts to find "action" like the cops always say on the TV show "COPS" I joined the force to serve my community and for the "ACTION". Well cops in San Diego it's seems lately are always looking for "ACTION" even when off-duty. Hell the officer even drives a Mercury sedan as his daily driver which of course is the red headed step-child car to the Ford Crown Vic he probably drives while on-duty. I guess the Mercury gives him that "on-duty feel" and of course he does alway have his gun on him. At least we know now. So I would guess 100% that other officers in San Diego carry while off-duty.

Considering it was a MOTHER and her CHILD, then some strange man comes up to you says he is an off-duty police officer and that you need to step out the car because of irradict driving. Are you going to believe the so-called officer or think this guy is an impostor?? San Diego does get a couple of arrests every year for people impersonating leo's.

I wouldn't open carry right now in San Diego with out first hiring a good lawyer and then first run it by the D/A and the chief of police because the cops in San Diego will kill you.

Just like the Heller case in D.C. right now, Dick Heller didn't just take his gun home for self-defense. He's sueing for the right to have a hand gun at home for self-defense. If I am correct on the Dick Heller case and if I am not can someone please kindly correct me. Heller never broke any laws and was never arrested, he is sueing to over turn the D.C. hand gun ban so he and the residents of D.C can have a hand gun at home for self-defense. Which is the same thing that needs to happen here in California. We need to sue for the right to CCW. Just this last weekend starting on March 15th to the 19th there were 4 shooting deaths and 3 injuries from shooting. 2 kids died in a car to car shooting on freeway. The injuried mother and child. The 1 shooting death at the Bahia Resort and Hotel. The shooting death a of man and injury of his 16 y/o friend.

[Soldier415]

I spoke with him and advised him that my gun was unloaded but my magazines weren't. The off duty officer came buy and told me that I was carrying a loaded weapon and I told him no I wasn't. He said a gun and ammo within close proximity ie arms reach was considered loaded.

Do any of the legal eagles here have a link to the case law/PC/documentation regarding this statement?

[MudCamper]

People, just because somebody told you it was true, doesn't make it true. I swear I have to dispell the "ammo in close proximity" myth weekly on these boards. It is FUD.

This is the court case: http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Har...y_of_Kings.pdf

If you are too lazy to read it all, read page 2 of my flyer: http://www.paul.net/guns/CaliforniaOpenCarry.pdf

Cops get the mistaken idea that ammo-in-close-proximity=loaded from other PC sections, regarding criminal gangs and while committing other felonies, niether of which apply to a lawful OCer.

[Bird of Fire]

I must state that this is most interesting. :hmm: I may have to try this someday and report back with my findings.

[Soldier415]

People, just because somebody told you it was true, doesn't make it true. I swear I have to dispell the "ammo in close proximity" myth weekly on these boards. It is FUD.

This is the court case: http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Har...y_of_Kings.pdf

If you are too lazy to read it all, read page 2 of my flyer: http://www.paul.net/guns/CaliforniaOpenCarry.pdf

Cops get the mistaken idea that ammo-in-close-proximity=loaded from other PC sections, regarding criminal gangs and while committing other felonies, niether of which apply to a lawful OCer.

Thank you for the clarification. I might go for the gold and open carry in Marin/Sonoma Counties after checking local statutes

[MudCamper]

OK I'm trying to find all the code sections that talk about carrying ammunition.

First, if you are violating 12025 (carrying concealed) then under 12025 (b) (6) (A) it states that if you are also carrying ammuntion on your person, it increases the potential sentance. But you have to be violating 12025 for this to apply.

12025 (b) ...

(6) By imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a
county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed one
thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment if
both of the following conditions are met:

(A) Both the pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being
concealed upon the person and the unexpended ammunition capable of
being discharged from that firearm are either in the immediate
possession of the person or readily accessible to that person, or the
pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon
the person is loaded as defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12031.

Next, if you are a gang member, you have additional problems:

12021.5. (a) Every person who carries a loaded or unloaded firearm
on his or her person, or in a vehicle, during the commission or
attempted commission of any street gang crimes described in
subdivision (a) or (b) of Section 186.22, shall, upon conviction of
the felony or attempted felony, be punished by an additional term of
imprisonment in the state prison for one, two, or three years in the
court's discretion. The court shall impose the middle term unless
there are circumstances in aggravation or mitigation. The court
shall state the reasons for its enhancement choice on the record at
the time of sentence.

(b) Every person who carries a loaded or unloaded firearm together
with a detachable shotgun magazine, a detachable pistol magazine, a
detachable magazine, or a belt-feeding device on his or her person,
or in a vehicle, during the commission or attempted commission of any
street gang crimes described in subdivision (a) or (b) of Section
186.22, shall, upon conviction of the felony or attempted felony, be
punished by an additional term of imprisonment in the state prison
for two, three, or four years in the court's discretion. The court
shall impose the middle term unless there are circumstances in
aggravation or mitigation. The court shall state the reasons for its
enhancement choice on the record at the time of sentence.

And if you are committing a felony, and are carrying armor piercing ammunition, then, yeah, you have more troubles:

12022.2. (a) Any person who, while armed with a firearm in the
commission or attempted commission of any felony, has in his or her
immediate possession ammunition for the firearm designed primarily to
penetrate metal or armor, shall upon conviction of that felony or
attempted felony, in addition and consecutive to the punishment
prescribed for the felony or attempted felony, be punished by an
additional term of 3, 4, or 10 years. The court shall order the
middle term unless there are circumstances in aggravation or
mitigation. The court shall state the reasons for its enhancement
choice on the record at the time of the sentence.

None of these things apply to legal open carrying. But I'm sure it's where people (LEO) get the mistaken ideas.

So, did I miss any others? Librarian, you following this thread?

[BaronW]

I think their mistaken definition of loaded comes from the definition of 'loaded' for a felony escalation.

(b) Every person who carries a loaded or unloaded firearm together
with a detachable shotgun magazine, a detachable pistol magazine, a
detachable magazine, or a belt-feeding device on his or her person,
or in a vehicle, during the commission or attempted commission of any
street gang crimes described in subdivision (a) or (b) of Section
186.22, shall, upon conviction of the felony or attempted felony, be
punished by an additional term of imprisonment in the state prison
for two, three, or four years in the court's discretion. The court
shall impose the middle term unless there are circumstances in
aggravation or mitigation. The court shall state the reasons for its
enhancement choice on the record at the time of sentence.

edit: gah, beaten.