Trigger Work on a HD Weapon?

[whatmeworry]

"Cases from other jurisdictions dealing with accidental discharges allegedly caused by light trigger pull weights can also help give an idea of how dangerous the hair trigger here was. In DeRosa v. Remington Arms Co., Inc. (E.D.N.Y. 1981) 509 F.Supp. 762, a products liability case, Judge Weinstein ruled that a police shotgun with a trigger pull weight of 4.5 pounds, which was within the industry guideline of 3 and 3.25 pounds to 6.5 pounds, was not unreasonably dangerous. (Id. at pp. 764, 768.) By contrast, in Hines v. Remington Arms Co., Inc. (La.App. 1993), reversed in part on other grounds in Hines v. Remington Arms Co., Inc. (La. 1994) 648 So.2d 331, another products liability case, the court held that a competition target-shooting rifle with a 2-ounce trigger pull weight was unreasonably dangerous per se. (Hines v. Remington Arms. Co., Inc., supra, 630 So.2d at pp. 813, 814.)"

[whatmeworry]

Interesting article covering this. I got the above quote from it.

https://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/gun-modifications

[Munny$hot]

My comment was that changes from factory can increase you liability.
This means that it is your choice if you want to take on this increased possiblity.
My recommendation is for SD shoot a factory firearm.
If I am correct, your best defence is not getting into a firefight. This is what I wish for you. Avoiding the situation is better than having to deal with it.

Even worse, when Hillary is in office she will outlaw your ability to defend yourself with a firearm or even own one.

I think I'll go with Massad's advise instead. His contribution to defending rightful just shooting, his contribution to the gun community, as well as his service as a LEO is just a small portion of what he does, so his expertise trumps any advice that is given in this post so far.

[Press Check]

I'd listen to your friend. Even if a trigger job is perfect & the trigger pull is still safe, why add another issue that can be used against you in court - trying to justify lightening the trigger. The D.A. will say you lightened the trigger so you could put more bullets into your "helpless victim" faster, ensuring his death. You can't guarantee that jurors are gun people & some of them may hate any gun owner who's not a police officer. You also can't guarantee that jurors have common sense - as we've seen, many don't. Besides, a defensive situation is close range, where a trigger job probably wouldn't be useful & may compromise reliability.

In preservation of life and limb, no one is under any obligation to simply injure someone into submission.

If you truly believe lightening the weight, reducing take-up or over-travel is going to be scrutinized, omit night sights, weapon mounted lights, extended magazine releases, extended slide stops, and all other ergonomic enhancements from your pistol as well.

Personally, my life, in addition to the lives of my family are without price. If there is an ergonomic enhancement that will allow me to defend our lives faster, more effectively, and more efficiently against a positively identified threat, as I always say, I will spare no expense in doing so, and unlike some of you, will not cower in fear of the consequences associated with doing so.

When seconds count, I would prefer to have the advantage, so if that includes a lightened trigger to avoid disrupting the sight picture whilst pulling it, so be it.

If the argument against a lightened trigger is associated with an ND under pressure, that's no argument. Your finger should not be staged on the trigger until you are ready to pull it.

[bob.dakeelstripe]

For me when cops start riots for defending there life and the word condemns the cop. The anti gun lawyers will do anything to prove I am wrong ! We have a second amendment right but we the gun owners are on a slippery slope at best you guys can do how you wish.

I my self don't want to be the ONE that got the ball rolling.Then need one win before all the rest use it as an example.

weather is legit or not I wont buy a pistol needing work or that I can't shoot well.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[bwhited]

Look at the post about yours.
It is very informative
There is no way to say you can do this and you can not do this or your will be quilty.
Do what you want and deal with the consequences.
The esiest way to have the minimum potential liabiltiy is to shoot a factory firearm.
If you are going to make any changes, make sure you have a good justificaton that can be easily communicated to the non-shooting public.
This is really my point. In an attempt to achieve this, I just went to a factory firearm.

I think I'll go with Massad's advise instead. His contribution to defending rightful just shooting, his contribution to the gun community, as well as his service as a LEO is just a small portion of what he does, so his expertise trumps any advice that is given in this post so far.

[Monster]

Light triggers are NOT for everybody and you may be one of those.

[Citizen_B]

Interesting article covering this. I got the above quote from it.

https://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/gun-modifications

That is a well written article however it still doesn't provide any evidence to an example where this was a deciding factor in a good shoot. In fact, the author asked his trial attorney friend to look into "court cases in which the question of light triggers arose." He gives a few examples but all relating to accidental discharge defenses. He actually concludes:

I agree with this and is also what I have found so far to be true. His closing statement is:

So, personally, if anyone asks me, I tell them never to screw around with the pull weight on a self-defense trigger, or if they simply must, have it done by a professional gunsmith, and keep it within factory recommendations.

I don't necessarily agree with that 100% as everything is specific to the individual. To be clear, I'm not saying gun modifications would have no effect in trail. I'm just saying I've heard this argument about trigger mods being a major factor in a self-defense trial yet I haven't seen evidence of such.

[bwhited]

The evidence your are looking for, is this criminal or civil?

I don't necessarily agree with that 100% as everything is specific to the individual. To be clear, I'm not saying gun modifications would have no effect in trail. I'm just saying I've heard this argument about trigger mods being a major factor in a self-defense trial yet I haven't seen evidence of such.

[Citizen_B]

The evidence your are looking for, is this criminal or civil?

Either would suffice. To be clear, this would be a case of a good shoot. There are many examples where the overall evidence points to a bad shoot and factors like gun mods come into play to paint the defendant's character or intent.

[Munny$hot]

Look at the post about yours.
It is very informative
There is no way to say you can do this and you can not do this or your will be quilty.
Do what you want and deal with the consequences.
The esiest way to have the minimum potential liabiltiy is to shoot a factory firearm.
If you are going to make any changes, make sure you have a good justificaton that can be easily communicated to the non-shooting public.
This is really my point. In an attempt to achieve this, I just went to a factory firearm.

Like I said Massad has testified and gave consultation hundreds if not thousands of times for both LEOs as well as to the general public so his advice on "what you can do and not due to be adjudicated gives more bearing than even the above post. If you've done or know more than Mr. Ayoob please enlighten us how.

[JTROKS]

Interesting article covering this. I got the above quote from it.

https://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/gun-modifications

Very good article.

As much as I love customized guns my standby home defense guns all have OEM parts except maybe night sights and lights. My USPSA range/competition guns have less than 2 lb trigger pull. In a defensive scenario would my range guns be adequate? Yes more than adequate, in fact they are fast and accurate. BUT using them for defensive purpose is not wise. Maybe if SHTF and the chance of going to court is slim/none. It all depends on the jury or the situation. What if I was on my way home after a day at the action pistol range and I see a San Bernardino type of terrorist active shooter. If I go into action and neutralize the threat with my custom competition guns with 1.5 lb trigger pull, high cap magazines, souped up reloaded ammo, would they prosecute me?

My advise is to keep the custom light trigger for the range.

[Win231]

In preservation of life and limb, no one is under any obligation to simply injure someone into submission.

If you truly believe lightening the weight, reducing take-up or over-travel is going to be scrutinized, omit night sights, weapon mounted lights, extended magazine releases, extended slide stops, and all other ergonomic enhancements from your pistol as well.

Personally, my life, in addition to the lives of my family are without price. If there is an ergonomic enhancement that will allow me to defend our lives faster, more effectively, and more efficiently against a positively identified threat, as I always say, I will spare no expense in doing so, and unlike some of you, will not cower in fear of the consequences associated with doing so.

When seconds count, I would prefer to have the advantage, so if that includes a lightened trigger to avoid disrupting the sight picture whilst pulling it, so be it.

If the argument against a lightened trigger is associated with an ND under pressure, that's no argument. Your finger should not be staged on the trigger until you are ready to pull it.

A weapon-attached light can help a defendant. A light shows responsibility in identifying a target before shooting at it in the dark.

[Citizen_B]

What if I was on my way home after a day at the action pistol range and I see a San Bernardino type of terrorist active shooter. If I go into action and neutralize the threat with my custom competition guns with 1.5 lb trigger pull, high cap magazines, souped up reloaded ammo, would they prosecute me?

What would you be charged with? Homicide? Your defense will be self-defense (specifically the defense of you and others). You didn't accidentally shoot the terrorist - that was your explicit intent. Your competition gun was a tool that enabled you to put all your rounds in his A-zone until he stopped killing people. If you threw a hammer at him would it have to be factory spec?

I'm not advocating you do any of that in that scenario, just asking the obvious rhetorical questions.

PS: I've probably unknowingly shot a few matches with you.

[Press Check]

A weapon-attached light can help a defendant. A light shows responsibility in identifying a target before shooting at it in the dark.

Sure, and if you continue with that same thought process, the same can be applied to the trigger. If you can actuate the trigger without disrupting your sight picture, there are less chances of missing your intended target, and having projectiles penetrate walls, putting neighbors or your own family in harms way.

If you are proficient in doing so with a factory trigger, no matter how gritty or heavy, awesome. However, some are not, and others are simply looking for any advantage available in anticipation of defending life and limb.