Trigger Work on a HD Weapon?

[Cokebottle]

The factory is thought to be an expert of the firearm, so they decide on what the trigger weight should be.

Production consumer items are well known to be compromises.
Was Ford being the expert when they specified the Firestones on the Explorer to be inflated to 28psi, which was dangerously low and resulted in the tread separation fiasco?

Production items are subject to tolerances, as well as tolerance stackup.
It COULD BE that the typical 5.5lb Glock trigger pull is the result of engineering analysis that shows that if all part were on the "light" side of tolerance, the resulting pull would be below 4lbs.

Trigger work performed by a competent, licensed gunsmith... not bubba with a Dremel... can place the operation of the gun exactly where desired with the randomness of manufacturing tolerances eliminated.

[micro911]

When a firearm was used in a crime, that firearm is usually examined by the crime lab. If the trigger pull is out of the factory specification, it is reported to the investigator. What happens after that? I do not know.

If officers' firearms are out of spec, it goes back to the armory and brought back to the factory spec. If the officer intentionally modified it, he may face a disciplinary action. If it was due to the usage, the parts are changed.

If you have only one firearm that the trigger is only 1 1/2 pounds, nothing precludes you from using it. Is there prohibition against it?

[Cokebottle]

If you have only one firearm that the trigger is only 1 1/2 pounds, nothing precludes you from using it. Is there prohibition against it?

Legally?

No.

For listing on CCW? Most IAs would probably have a problem with it being that low.

[chaps]

These companies are in business to make money.
Just because they offer a service does not mean that it the best for SD.
Many range guns are popular SD guns.

Perhaps you missed a key modifier in my post:

DEFENSIVE CARRY trigger kits.

Not range kits, competition kits, target kits. These are kits expressly developed for use in guns intended for Defensive Carry, as in SD ... not simply range guns as you presumed in your response.

Again, would they not know that selling a Defensive Carry trigger kit, advertised expressly for use in SD/HD (not just range) guns, would place them in a litigator's crosshairs? Perhaps we need to walk the dog here: You buy an Apex defensive carry trigger kit for your J Frame. You use said altered J Frame in a SD incident. Do you think the same mindset feared here that would punish the victim for modifying their gun, would leave the manufacturer alone? When assaulting manufacturers is much more profitable, higher profile, and career enhancing for DAs?

I believe manufacturers are PAINFULLY aware of the legal climate out there, that essentially they manufacture without a safety net of protection ... and yet they manufacture and sell to the public Defensive Carry trigger kits. My bet is that they know more than all of the folks who have posted in this thread, collectively, about legal ramification of modifying a trigger on an SD gun, and yet they make them anyway. Yes, that means something.

[sholling]

First I want to make it perfectly clear that I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on the Internet. That made clear, a shooting in your home is a binary situation, one and zeros.

Were you in justifiable fear for your life or the lives of loved ones? Yes or no?

Did you shoot the right person or a bystander? Yes you shot the threat or no you shot a bystander?

Did you intend to shoot the person that you shot: Yes I took the shot or no it was a ND. If the answer is no to any of these three questions then you're in deep trouble. If the answer to all three questions is yes then I can't believe that it matters if you used an Olympic grade competition pistol, a 1700s blunderbuss, or a modern sporting rifle. A legally justified self-defense shooting is a within the law and while you'll likely get sued by the money-grubbing family of the late felon I don't see a case. Now if you say that it was an ND you have both criminal and civil problems and your 2lb trigger is going to cost you.

Now I could be completely wrong but I have yet to see a string of cases showing that modifications made any real-world difference with an otherwise good shooting.

[Win231]

Sure, and if you continue with that same thought process, the same can be applied to the trigger. If you can actuate the trigger without disrupting your sight picture, there are less chances of missing your intended target, and having projectiles penetrate walls, putting neighbors or your own family in harms way.

If you are proficient in doing so with a factory trigger, no matter how gritty or heavy, awesome. However, some are not, and others are simply looking for any advantage available in anticipation of defending life and limb.

You're correct. I'm not disputing that. I'm not the one who would have to be convinced...the ignorant jurors would have to be convinced. A juror wouldn't look at it that way; especially with help from the D.A.

[Win231]

... and yet many reputable companies sell defensive carry trigger kits for popular SD/HD guns. Are they not knowledgeable of the risks to their customers?

I think we make too much of ifs.

Many companies sell trigger kits because they know many ignorant gun owners will buy them, thinking they're a substitute for practice & skill.

Many companies also sell fat free & low fat foods because they know many fat people will buy them, thinking they're a substitute for a healthy diet & exercise.

[JTROKS]

How do you figure? Did these three things happen?

1) Reasonably believed that you were in imminent danger of being killed, injured, or touched unlawfully,

2) Reasonably believed that you needed to use force to prevent that from happening, and

3) Used no more force than was necessary to prevent that from happening.

If so, you've met the metric for legal self-defense. You could have used your open gun or a broom to perform your defense.

God help me that I never have to, but if I ever shoot any scumbags hope their family won't care about them getting taken out:

[Kappy]

There is an intermediary trigger job.

Your trigger job was apparently way too extreme. It might be that you just need to get used to it, but as it stands now you should not use it in any practical sense. That means using it for home defense or carry is completely unacceptable. I'm not just talking about being worried about what a prosecutor would say; I'm talking about carrying a properly functioning firearm.

Now... I will say that I've seen some very nice guns with "hair triggers." I found them acceptable for range use. Still, when you have a trigger which is just going off like that, you have a problem.

Are there trigger jobs which are acceptable? Absolutely. I have a commander 1911 from Springfield on which I tried to do a trigger job. I didn't like it, so I sent it to Springfield and had them work it over. The resulting job is perfect for self defense. It definitely won't go off without me intentionally pressing the trigger, but it is a crisp trigger which doesn't cause strain when pressing it.

I have a CZ 75B which has an INCREDIBLE trigger. It isn't too light, even with the hammer cocked, but I would never carry it. Why? Because it was worked over by someone who was not a professional smith and (more precisely) was not worked over by someone capable of accepting responsibility for an accidental shooting. By accidental, I mean a malfunctioning firearm, the only true accident. If you're putting a gun in your holster and jostling it (without your finger being on the trigger) causes it to discharge because of a major malfunction, that is accidental.

I don't even know that your second shot was necessarily negligent. You were following the rules of gun safety. It was a problem with the gun which caused the second discharge. People might argue, but I wouldn't beat myself up too much. No one was hurt, and you've learned something about trigger work. Now don't do it again.

In the future, when you have a new trigger, load a single round without the magazine in. When you fire, the slide will rack. If it clicks again, you'll know that it was WAY too light.

[HPBrowningMK3]

Someone here graciously let me shoot his CZ SP-01 that had some trigger work done on it. In addition to the smoothness throughout the length of pull of the trigger, I noticed how little effort it took to do so. So much so, in fact, that when the pistol recoiled after one particular shot, my finger engaged the trigger an additional time - by accident - and shot another round into the ceiling of the range. Needless to say, this got my attention, got me thinking, and also caused me to question a few things, which I would like to put out to you guys.

First, is there an intermediary place between the tremendous travel and effort needed to traverse the travel in a stock pistol trigger, and a "full" trigger job? I am putting the "full" in quotes because I suspect the answer is yes, but I have yet to be shown a weapon that has been given this type of "intermediary" trigger job, or a person who thinks this is a good idea. It seems that when it comes to trigger work, there exists an "all-or-nothing" attitude, automatically presuming that "more" work is always better.

Second is the question of different purposes. When I asked around, everyone was a fan of going "all the way" with trigger work, until I met a friend who logically said that some trigger work was good for competition only, and not good for home defense. I suspect that this has something to do with the fact that he is a former police officer, and that if there was ever any question about liability, they might have to answer to the courts as to if any aftermarket work done unnecessarily caused harm, yes?

Third (and finally), what is your opinion on the matter?

Why don't you ask your friend to cite a case where this was an issue?

[hambam105]

If the OP wants telephone numbers to, 'Go all the way' and get trigger work done on a HD pistol, then I hope someone can also provide the OP with the telephone number of a good Attorney.

[AFTII]

So much FUD in this thread.

[ChuckDizzle]

A trigger job on a weapon used in self defense would only become a legal issue if the shooting was unintentional.

If you ever have to shoot someone in self defense politely invoke your 5th amendment right and request an attorney. They will be able to help you articulate correctly what facts lead you to reasonably believe you were in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm.

We see this confusion when people think using an AR-15 for home defense would be less explainable than something less "scary looking" than say a .22 revolver.

This is not how it works though, the legal analysis for the justification for the use of deadly force remains the same whether you use a modified firearm, AR-15, or a .22 revolver. If it is justifiable to shoot someone with a .22 pistol it is also justifiable to shoot them with an AR-10. Same goes for modifications to the weapon.

Once again, this changes if the weapon is discharged UNINTENTIONALLY. In that case you may be seen as negligent in your modification of the weapon's firing system, and for violating a fundamental rule of firearms safety because you failed to keep your finger off the trigger until you are sure of your target and ready to fire.

[ChuckDizzle]

If the OP wants telephone numbers to, 'Go all the way' and get trigger work done on a HD pistol, then I hope someone can also provide the OP with the telephone number of a good Attorney.

He's likely going to need a good attorney if he ever shoots someone in defense of his home regardless of whether or not the firearm has been modified.

[OttoLoader]

For me as a practical matter I keep all my firearm triggers stock and only factory work if needed. I do this as a cost efficient method to have a good running gun. If I were to enter contests then I would set up a competition gun for range use only.