Trigger Work on a HD Weapon?

[Rorge Retson]

Someone here graciously let me shoot his CZ SP-01 that had some trigger work done on it. In addition to the smoothness throughout the length of pull of the trigger, I noticed how little effort it took to do so. So much so, in fact, that when the pistol recoiled after one particular shot, my finger engaged the trigger an additional time - by accident - and shot another round into the ceiling of the range. Needless to say, this got my attention, got me thinking, and also caused me to question a few things, which I would like to put out to you guys.

First, is there an intermediary place between the tremendous travel and effort needed to traverse the travel in a stock pistol trigger, and a "full" trigger job? I am putting the "full" in quotes because I suspect the answer is yes, but I have yet to be shown a weapon that has been given this type of "intermediary" trigger job, or a person who thinks this is a good idea. It seems that when it comes to trigger work, there exists an "all-or-nothing" attitude, automatically presuming that "more" work is always better.

Second is the question of different purposes. When I asked around, everyone was a fan of going "all the way" with trigger work, until I met a friend who logically said that some trigger work was good for competition only, and not good for home defense. I suspect that this has something to do with the fact that he is a former police officer, and that if there was ever any question about liability, they might have to answer to the courts as to if any aftermarket work done unnecessarily caused harm, yes?

Third (and finally), what is your opinion on the matter?

[BoJackUSMC]

All my HD, carry, CC weapons are factory stock except for the sights. I prefer that way.

[trigger945]

First of all, glad that you and those around you were unharmed after the ND. Those things do happen.

As for your question, not sure what is a "full" trigger job. If it means replacing the FCG completely, then yes, there is an "in between" stage, which can include polishing the contact points on the stock FCG.

For HD, I prefer stock. For strictly range use, including competition, I prefer a trigger job.

Hope this helps.

[ElDub1950]

..... in fact, that when the pistol recoiled after one particular shot, my finger engaged the trigger an additional time - by accident - and shot another round into the ceiling of the range. .....

Third (and finally), what is your opinion on the matter?

IMHO, if your recoil control and trigger control are such that you put the ND into the ceiling, you should not think about a lighter trigger. Maybe go heavier.

Not trying to be a jerk here but the recoil from a 2.5 lb 9mm gun shouldn't even move you off the paper.

[Erion929]

On my SP-01 that is used in HD, I am only lightening the DA pull from ~12 lbs. to ~8.5 lb......will leave the SA pull alone.

Many recommendations out there to not mess with SA (or get DA too low) on a HD gun, as prosecutors start effing with you.

[bwhited]

HD gun should use a factory trigger!

Ok, you have to use the firearm to defend yourself.
The dirtbag pays the price.
The dirtbag's family takes you to court (Civil case).
Dirtbag's family states, you had to make the firearm even more deadly.
The jury gives the dirtbags family even more money from you.

Is the lighter trigger worth it?

On my SP-01 that is used in HD, I am only lightening the DA pull from ~12 lbs. to ~8.5 lb......will leave the SA pull alone.

Many recommendations out there to not mess with SA (or get DA too low) on a HD gun, as prosecutors start effing with you.

[Rhyyke]

Not disbelieving the fact, but curious for evidence. Is there a documented court case where someone shot an intruder/aggressor and later the trigger work was used against him/her in court? I've heard this opinion a lot but I don't think I've seen examples. Obviously some outrageously obvious modification might be picked up on, but I'm not sure a DA would tear my Glock apart and point out the 25c trigger job and minus connector.

[Win231]

I'd listen to your friend. Even if a trigger job is perfect & the trigger pull is still safe, why add another issue that can be used against you in court - trying to justify lightening the trigger. The D.A. will say you lightened the trigger so you could put more bullets into your "helpless victim" faster, ensuring his death. You can't guarantee that jurors are gun people & some of them may hate any gun owner who's not a police officer. You also can't guarantee that jurors have common sense - as we've seen, many don't. Besides, a defensive situation is close range, where a trigger job probably wouldn't be useful & may compromise reliability.

[bwhited]

If this is an issue, you either need to avoid light triggers or learn how to use them.
There are many competition shooters (IPSC / USPSA) shooting triggers less than 2 pounds. They shoot them quickly and accurately while not firing uninteneded shots.

Having this issue, my first suggestion would be to loosen your grip. A tight grip reduces the control you have on your trigger finger. (Before everyone says that loosening the grip screws will not make a difference, my use of grip refers to the pressure your hand is putting on the firearm)

Someone here graciously let me shoot his CZ SP-01 that had some trigger work done on it. In addition to the smoothness throughout the length of pull of the trigger, I noticed how little effort it took to do so. So much so, in fact, that when the pistol recoiled after one particular shot, my finger engaged the trigger an additional time - by accident - and shot another round into the ceiling of the range. Needless to say, this got my attention, got me thinking, and also caused me to question a few things, which I would like to put out to you guys.

First, is there an intermediary place between the tremendous travel and effort needed to traverse the travel in a stock pistol trigger, and a "full" trigger job? I am putting the "full" in quotes because I suspect the answer is yes, but I have yet to be shown a weapon that has been given this type of "intermediary" trigger job, or a person who thinks this is a good idea. It seems that when it comes to trigger work, there exists an "all-or-nothing" attitude, automatically presuming that "more" work is always better.

Second is the question of different purposes. When I asked around, everyone was a fan of going "all the way" with trigger work, until I met a friend who logically said that some trigger work was good for competition only, and not good for home defense. I suspect that this has something to do with the fact that he is a former police officer, and that if there was ever any question about liability, they might have to answer to the courts as to if any aftermarket work done unnecessarily caused harm, yes?

Third (and finally), what is your opinion on the matter?

[Erion929]

HD gun should use a factory trigger!

Ok, you have to use the firearm to defend yourself.
The dirtbag pays the price.
The dirtbag's family takes you to court (Civil case).
Dirtbag's family states, you had to make the firearm even more deadly.
The jury gives the dirtbags family even more money from you.

Is the lighter trigger worth it?

A lighter DA pull is for accuracy, not for speed. A 12 lb. DA pull is not accuracy-friendly....nor is 8.5 lbs. dangerous.

I fail to see how a DA pull of 8.5 lbs. is worse than the ubiquitous Glock/M&P/XD striker fired guns with 5.5 lbs. stock trigger pull.

SA, yes, I would leave that alone on a HD gun.

[bwhited]

As a gun person it may be reasonable.
The issue is explaining it to the jury and having non-gun people understand the issue.
You already may have anti-gun people on the jury and trying to explain another issue makes having them on your side even more unlikely.

A lighter DA pull is for accuracy, not for speed. A 12 lb. DA pull is not accuracy-friendly....nor is 8.5 lbs. dangerous.

I fail to see how a DA pull of 8.5 lbs. is worse than the ubiquitous Glock/M&P/XD striker fired guns with 5.5 lbs. stock trigger pull.

SA, yes, I would leave that alone on a HD gun.

[Munny$hot]

IMHO modify anything you want without changing spring weights or polishing the disengagement surfaces, so don't alter the reliability and your good for HD/CCW. As for having a light trigger so you could kill faster is if your shooting because you where in fear of your life. PD protocol is to shoot until the perp is no longer a threat by either not having the will or ability to fight due to blood loss. The same could be said about target practice so you can be more accurate to kill with a single/few shots or taking classes so your a more proficient killer.

[MarikinaMan]

Ease into modifications. My first exposure to a 3 pound trigger, which isnt very light, I was doing dry fire exercises, and I was surprised to have broke the trigger before I was ready. I was just thinking it, and it broke. It made me more cautious.

Familiarity and practice made me more comfortable with modded triggers. I still follow a limit of 3 pounds for range toys and 4-5 pounds minimum for HD. Thats me. Youll find your own comfort level, just ease into it.

[bwhited]

This is not an issue on if you are guilty or not it is a major issue on the amount of the award in the civil trial.
In the criminal trial it is how you used your firearm to protect human life.
In the civil trial it is how you did it. Good or bad you may loose the civil trial. Modification of the firearm increases the odd of loosing the civil trial and increasing the award.
It is your money, but I would take the risk.
Hopefully this is all a moot point in that you will never have to use your firearm to protect yourself.

Not disbelieving the fact, but curious for evidence. Is there a documented court case where someone shot an intruder/aggressor and later the trigger work was used against him/her in court? I've heard this opinion a lot but I don't think I've seen examples. Obviously some outrageously obvious modification might be picked up on, but I'm not sure a DA would tear my Glock apart and point out the 25c trigger job and minus connector.

[NiteQwill]

I'm confused. Is there any pending or past case litigation where a modified trigger was a factor in a trial?

Or is this the ongoing Internet myth?