Muzzle UP or muzzle DOWN?

[far from tactical]

I tend to have the slide open and always point it down when I'm walking with it

[CBruce]

Today at Lytle Creek the RSO yelled at me for walking back to my car with my handgun muzzle down ( as i was taught) saying i should carry it muzzle up..

Which is more dangerous? the risk of ricochet or stone shrapnel or the risk of some guy over the hill getting hit?

I believe down on dirt, grass, or other soft ground when there's no chance of richochet; up in other circumstances. Mythbusters' experiment showed that bullets fired straight up becomes relatively harmless falling back to the Earth. They destabilize and tumble back down. It has to be fired at an angle to maintain a stable trajectory and lethal velocity.

Range rules or specific environmental concerns (ie, a concrete roof) trump all that.

[Full Clip]

Safe direction. However, all ranges have their own rules so, you gotta follow their rules in their house.

This, but, overall, I usually keep the muzzle up if not down range.

[pmoradi2002]

Muzzle safe.

I woulda told that RSO to suck my balls

[fizux]

I always understood to keep the muzzle down, until I got to the Ft. Benning school for boys. When you have 120 dumb@$$ noob privates (including me) lined up on the zero range, it becomes easier for a couple of drill sergeants to ensure safety because they can easily see everyone's muzzles pointed up and downrange. Muzzles down are harder to see from the tower behind the firing line.

A lot of people acquired their range habits in the .mil environment, and then brought those habits back to public ranges, where innocent civilians were subjected to indoctrination.

[VegasND]

These days every range seems to have one RSO who is an idiot or a know-it-all. All the others can be great -- but there's got to be 'that one'

Muzzle safe.

I woulda told that RSO to suck my balls

[steelrain82]

I always understood to keep the muzzle down, until I got to the Ft. Benning school for boys. When you have 120 dumb@$$ noob privates (including me) lined up on the zero range, it becomes easier for a couple of drill sergeants to ensure safety because they can easily see everyone's muzzles pointed up and downrange. Muzzles down are harder to see from the tower behind the firing line.

A lot of people acquired their range habits in the .mil environment, and then brought those habits back to public ranges, where innocent civilians were subjected to indoctrination.

this. ^^^transport carry. i always thought it was down but then when unloaded they taught us to point it up. live rounds loaded point it down. it makes sense from a safety stand point

[R1J1D]

I believe down on dirt, grass, or other soft ground when there's no chance of richochet; up in other circumstances. Mythbusters' experiment showed that bullets fired straight up becomes relatively harmless falling back to the Earth. They destabilize and tumble back down. It has to be fired at an angle to maintain a stable trajectory and lethal velocity.

Range rules or specific environmental concerns (ie, a concrete roof) trump all that.

lol cause mythbusters is always right.

look up how many people have been killed from falling bullets. I remember it happening in my neighborhood when i was younger 4th of july or new years.

[Droppin Deuces]

I'm in the habit of carrying muzzle up, holding the barrel or handguard if the rifle isn't slung. If it's slung and I'm walking around, I always have a chamber flag in there.

I would NEVER carry muzzle down at my local outdoor range where you're shoothing from a conrete platform and there are always people shooting prone. Just a bad idea.

Really, I think you need to be aware of your surroundings and carry in whatever manner keeps you and the people around you safe.

[CBruce]

lol cause mythbusters is always right.

look up how many people have been killed from falling bullets. I remember it happening in my neighborhood when i was younger 4th of july or new years.

Again, bullets fired straight up destabilize and tumble back to the ground at their terminal velocity. Bullets fired at a shallower angle do not. They maintain their muzzle velocity (way faster than terminal velocity of a falling bullet) and are lethal. What the actual angle of lethatlity is, I couldn't say. Likely affected by velocity, bullet mass, length, spin rate, wind, humidity, etc. But once a bullet's downward velocity from gravity exceeds it's velocity along it's trajectory, it will no longer be 'nose forward' and it will destabliize. The gyroscopic stablization that helps a bullet fly straight also prevent it from reorienting itself to continue pointing downwards.

People are not killed or injured by falling bullets. They're killed by bullets traveling at speeds near their muzzle velocity (minus loss of speed from air resistance), in a stable trajectory, fired at an angle from a great distance away.

Don't get me wrong, it's still ludicrously irresponsible to intentionally fire a bullet into the air.

[Full Clip]

lol cause mythbusters is always right.

I guess you missed the episode, because their experiments made it pretty freaking clear as to how this works.
Of course, all they have on their side is basic science, like elementary physics, and who can trust that?

[Asphodel]

Hello, Rand,

There is a really easy way to deal with this issue, and it doesn't involve any consideration of bullets striking the earth or richochetting off concrete.

When going to an unfamiliar range, the obvious procedure is to find the person in charge of the range, whether a rangemaster or rso of a formal range, or the person who has the 'seniority' or is in a 'supervisory' status at an informal rural hillside (and it may take a bit of asking to find out just who that person is, but there will always be someone who has the responsibility for the use of the area).

Before unloading or uncasing any weapons, ask what the accepted or established procedures are, at that place...........and understand that the procedures may vary completely, depending on which person is 'in charge' that day.

There will never be any universal answer to the 'muzzle up' or 'muzzle down' issue, as different people will have differing opinions, for differing reasons.

The one thing which really should be considered 'universal practice' is to carry any weapons in a 'show safe' condition, when behind the firing line. (actions open, detachable mags removed, muzzles kept under control at all times to as never to risk 'sweeping' another person, etc.)

I can speak from personal experience, having been RM at a couple of local ranges for quite a few years.

I required rifles to be uncased well away from the firing line, in such a way that the muzzles pointed toward a berm, then moved to a rifle rack or to a firing point in a 'show safe' condition, with muzzle vertical up, and very nearly exactly vertical, so that there was no risk of a muzzle ever pointing even near a human being.

This was 'my opinion' as to safe weapons handling.

Someone else who had the duty could have reversed that procedure, and required 'muzzle down', at their sole discretion. That person could have their own reason for requiring a 'muzzle down' carry.

Remember, it will be the RM who will be 'hung out to dry' or be 'twisting slowly, slowly, in the wind' if ever an injury to personnel should occur at the range, whether or not an accidental (or 'negligent', for those who must have that term) discharge occurs. (possible range injury is not limited to gunshot wounds..........ever see a bad case of 'scope eye' cut open someone's forehead, when a careless person fired an unfamiliar rifle?)

Being RM on a live-fire range is a serious responsibility, if taken as such........which, unfortunately, not all RM's do.

Its a sad truth that some RM's are needlessly verbally abusive to range users........we can speculate as to the reasons why this might be so........but the practical response is to file a formal complaint with the range management.

Verbal abuse, regardless of any alleged 'reason' for it, is a serious safety hazard at a live-fire range, as it has a very real potential to create emotional reactions in people which would have the potential to distract them from the necessary continuous concentration on safe and prudent handling of weapons, which is the primary responsibility of every person on or near the range, at all times.

cheers

Carla

[Mesa Tactical]

look up how many people have been killed from falling bullets. I remember it happening in my neighborhood when i was younger 4th of july or new years.

While I suspect any object weighing as much or more than a bullet can cause injury should it fall from the sky at terminal velocity, I believe it is much more likely that News Years Eve deaths are not so much from spent bullets falling from the sky as your garden variety irresponsible use of firearms. Anyone who is drunk and firing guns into the air is as likely as not to also accidentally shoot someone in the usual manner.

The fact that people are firing guns into the air and other people are dying from gunshot wounds does not at all indicate the victims were hit by spent bullets. It is not surprising at all that when there are drunk people firing guns irresponsibly, people are getting hurt.

[fighterpilot562]

I was taught by my dad to keep it down, but I seen at ranges, RO yell at people to point it up.

[17+1]

Action open, mag removed(if possible), chamber flag in, muzzle up!

That's how highpower, silhouette, vintage rifle etc. matches run. Never liked muzzle down. I've had my feet/legs swept by people at the open range who were doing that. Closed bolt/action and all...