Seller Says Don't Release It

[BannedinBritain]

That is evident.

Any thought about confirming satisfactory payment before entering the PPT info? I have never had a counter person, or Halifax, seem to give it a thought.

After this discussion I'm thinking about posting a huge sign with bright red letter's stating something to that effect...lol

[paul0660]

After this discussion I'm thinking about posting a huge sign with bright red letter's stating something to that effect...lol

We don't read the rest of that stuff, so a verbal confirmation or signed copy of bill of sale between the parties, etc. might be better.

[ZirconJohn]

That is evident.

Any thought about confirming satisfactory payment before entering the PPT info? I have never had a counter person, or Halifax, seem to give it a thought.

Ya, I never give it a thought either Paul...

I just assume (okay don't nobody gotta break-up the spelling of assume and
teach me something okay, I'm 55 years old fer keewright-sakes!)

Anyway... I just assume when they come in for PPT, that everthing is all
settled-up... man to man.

Never had to deal with this 'ya-but he didn't pay me wha-wha kind'a stuff...!'

Golly dang... you buying a gun... be a man about-IT... and PAY the feller...!

[BannedinBritain]

We don't read the rest of that stuff

Yeah...what was I thinking...lol

[Tripper]

I'm saying what if I'm the buyer, and I day of course I paid him completely
Then what.

[ZirconJohn]

OMG... ^^^ REALLY...!?!

I gotta go... I have guns to go pick-up from FedEx... wow...!

I gotta go do something else... y'all play nice now y'hear...!

[tenpercentfirearms]

Just use some common sense. If a regular customer calls me or comes by and tells me that the buyer still hasn't paid, I would contact the buyer and ask him what is going on. If he confirms he hasn't paid, then I will wait until he does before I release it. If he claims that he has paid and the seller is extorting him, I would then probably have to let he seller know that it is out of my hands and that when his background is finished, I will release the firearm.

The good news is as the FFL, I am in control. A customer can demand and make theats about me producing their firearm all they want. I don't have to do it. So remember to use a little bit of tact and reasoning and don't just try to be a tough guy. I won't be intimidated, but I can be reasoned with.

[halifax]

Wow, leave for a few minutes and off the thread goes...

I'm leaning towards siding with the seller since I heard the back and forth between them in my shop. The buyer still owes > $1000 and the seller said it needed to be paid before the pickup day. The buyer agreed. Why some people here think the buyer OWNS something he hasn't paid for, I don't know. I will be sitting on things until the "contract" they verbally agreed to in front of me is complete.

Thanks for the input and entertainment.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Wow, leave for a few minutes and off the thread goes...

I'm leaning towards siding with the seller since I heard the back and forth between them in my shop. The buyer still owes > $1000 and the seller said it needed to be paid before the pickup day. The buyer agreed. Why some people here think the buyer OWNS something he hasn't paid for, I don't know. I will be sitting on things until the "contract" they verbally agreed to in front of me is complete.

Thanks for the input and entertainment.

And there you go. Some common sense. Not sure why you posted here if you already knew the answer. I guess you just like to stir up the pot sometimes like me!

[halifax]

And there you go. Some common sense. Not sure why you posted here if you already knew the answer. I guess you just like to stir up the pot sometimes like me!

\

[ron1950]

Wow, leave for a few minutes and off the thread goes...

I'm leaning towards siding with the seller since I heard the back and forth between them in my shop. The buyer still owes > $1000 and the seller said it needed to be paid before the pickup day. The buyer agreed. Why some people here think the buyer OWNS something he hasn't paid for, I don't know. I will be sitting on things until the "contract" they verbally agreed to in front of me is complete.

Thanks for the input and entertainment.

It seems to me that you are putting yourself in the position of "escrow agent" in determining that all the conditions of the deal are met before releasing the property in question.

I'm not sure that it is your role to be the escrow agent but rather the "transfer agent" as required by law.

The only reason you still have the property is that DOJ requires 10 days for a background check. If it were a C&R or any other type of property except real estate there is no middleman holding on to the property to complete paperwork.

The two parties entered into a buy/sell agreement and the seller released his property. If the payment has not been made (allegedly) that is a civil matter. The seller could sue in small claims court.

If there was no receipt created, as normally happens in private gun transactions then there is no proof that the buyer did not actually pay.

If you get yourself in the middle of a private dispute regardless of your good motives you could find yourself in small claims yourself. Not likely though I admit.

I understand your motives but I think you are overstepping your bounds in this case.

Having said that, since you do have to sign the final paperwork you are in a position of power that is not normal in most small sales transactions.

Of course in most small sales transactions the seller would not release his property without full payment anyway.

[JaMail]

i like this scenario..

from a legal standpoint, can you even release it back to the seller? as of the day they signed the paperwork for the PPT , its not his anymore... its the buyers. your not an escrow agent. your not acting as a seller or buyer agent, your acting as an agent of the california dept of justice to make sure all rules are followed in the transfer.

paperwork was done, seller signed off on it.

when does the DROS paperwork with serial number get sent to the CADOJ ?

i doubt its on the tenth day when you let them pick up, its on the first day when you submit it. even if its a rifle, wouldnt it be the same?

What EXACTLY does the DROS process entail? obviously its dealers record of Sale. but the 10 day and the pick up are a formality.

what grounds would you have for not releasing it to the buyer?

He shows up, his DROS was approved by the CADOJ, and you refuse to release it. Could he call the police and say your attempting to steal something from him?

If this happened to me, i think that would be the route I would take, I would call the CADOJ first, and then the police second.

Would this get you in hot water with the CADOJ as far as not following the rules on PPT's? are there rules written down on the process?

seems to me sellers only recourse is to take the buyer to small claims.

[ZirconJohn]

So... anyway, sure'nuff is hot outside ain'it tho...!?!

[paul0660]

So... anyway, sure'nuff is hot outside ain'it tho...!?!

Seen worse, not ready to strip down to skivvies.

Escrow agent is about the right term.

People have different sensibilities of risk, but me, a poor mouse, cannot imagine putting a gun into dros without the money in hand from the buyer. The ten day wait is a dumb gubmint thing. In other places the seller, supposedly, would have given the buyer the gun with an expectation of being paid. I wouldn't do that with a piano, car, or pony, much less a gun.

[lockpicker70]

Thank you guys .
You have provided the BEST example of why payment in full is required before ppt .

It shows that when money , guns , girls & sometimes cars get involved , IT can hit the fan . They , the PPTrs maybe friends , or friends of friends ....

Aside from every thing going back to perspective party ( money , gun ) it just sounds like it maybe a / all small claims court case/s . FFL does not release , go to court . Seller does not get 1k owed , court .

My 1 question is : If the buyer has been approved by DOJ & legally its his . Would the seller have to have it drosd back to him ? OR does FFL call DOJ & say " buyer never paid seller , cancel it " & it is reverted into the sellers name or ??????

Just wondering .......