What would be a 'fair' PPT charge?

[bohoki]

i have a problem with the 10 day storage

why couldn't the seller hold it for the 10 days and have both come back after the 10 day wait as an option? if the buyer does not wish to return in 10 days then they could pay for the on premises storage

it would be cool to have a self service kiosk if all things worked perfect in the world

imagine a device like the red box dvd rental machine buyer comes in scans his id and has pic taken thumb print scanned buyer has pic taken and id scanned with thumb print a door opens and there is a tube you install the firearm in the tube the info is sent to the doj they verify the person pictured is the person in the id

on day 10 the buyer shows up runs his id and thumb print in the reader has a pic taken waits like 5 minutes for some one at the doj to verify pic match and thumb print (computer match)

sure this is not according to atf regs but technically it is a states rights issue for in-state private party transfer that is not entering interstate commerce

[Cokebottle]

Smart dealers ought to look at PPTs as a loss leader.

Sadly, they are few and far between.
Most are no different than Mom & Pop hobby shops who will talk to a first-time customer like they have known him forever and rant about catalog sales or internet vendors or the chain store down the street who are going to drive them out of business.

No... your stuff being priced 10% over MSRP, lack of stock, and attitude are what is going to drive you out of business. People in your industry have have to deal with mail-order and chain stores for 100 years.


They need to realize that keeping customers is a balance of price and service. When I buy online, I expect zero customer service, and if I have a problem, it's rare that I'll put out the effort to send it back, especially when I know it's going to be a fight.
And I'm perfectly willing to pay more to get the level of customer service provided by a shop like Riflegear.

But places like the Stockade?
High prices, ignored by employees... or even insulted ("I'm looking for a gun for my wife" "Oh, I made that mistake once" and he walks out the door for a smoke), won't do PPTs on Sunday, and try to charge more than $35.


Some gun shops "Get it". Many of them are here on CGN.
Most don't. Most of them aren't here on CGN.

[jtmkinsd]

Why would the dealer only do transfers? Not going to make money that way.

Transfer only dealers work in volume...they have lower transfer fees than retailers...obviously they would be more successful in urban areas with large populations. You might be surprised at the level of revenue.

[Cokebottle]

Transfer only dealers work in volume...they have lower transfer fees than retailers...obviously they would be more successful in urban areas with large populations. You might be surprised at the level of revenue.

True... It is a very high margin. You still have insurance costs, but there's no inventory cost.... basically every transaction minus $25 is gross profit.

[jtmkinsd]

i have a problem with the 10 day storage

why couldn't the seller hold it for the 10 days and have both come back after the 10 day wait as an option? if the buyer does not wish to return in 10 days then they could pay for the on premises storage

it would be cool to have a self service kiosk if all things worked perfect in the world

imagine a device like the red box dvd rental machine buyer comes in scans his id and has pic taken thumb print scanned buyer has pic taken and id scanned with thumb print a door opens and there is a tube you install the firearm in the tube the info is sent to the doj they verify the person pictured is the person in the id

on day 10 the buyer shows up runs his id and thumb print in the reader has a pic taken waits like 5 minutes for some one at the doj to verify pic match and thumb print (computer match)

sure this is not according to atf regs but technically it is a states rights issue for in-state private party transfer that is not entering interstate commerce

Way too many avenues for fraud, straw purchase and would be a logistical nightmare. Basically your suggestion would require DOJ "tellers" to be on-hand to "verify pic match and thumb print". Also, why make them both show up twice when in the current system the seller only has to show up once, drop off the firearm, have his ID swiped, sign and he's done?

[E Pluribus Unum]

Way too many avenues for fraud, straw purchase and would be a logistical nightmare. Basically your suggestion would require DOJ "tellers" to be on-hand to "verify pic match and thumb print". Also, why make them both show up twice when in the current system the seller only has to show up once, drop off the firearm, have his ID swiped, sign and he's done?

I think the whole government-envolved PPT is crap. Criminals are going to buy street guns and people who nut up, buy a gun, and kill people are just going to use a knife or a street gun if they don't already own guns. The 14 day wait is an encumbrance that needs to go away. Other states have instant background checks, cash and carry. There is no reason California can't do that for PPTs as well.

[Matt C]

Transfer only dealers work in volume...they have lower transfer fees than retailers...obviously they would be more successful in urban areas with large populations. You might be surprised at the level of revenue.

If they are making a lot of cash off people who have no choice but to use them, and would have no use for the service otherwise, because of a stupid law, then it's pretty asinine for them to complain that they can't get even more money from another government mandated scheme.

[tenpercentfirearms]

That's fine for dealers who have accessories to sell...my whole point was geared toward the dealer who only does transfers, not retail...the thing that sticks the most in my craw is the DROS fee has gone up over the years...so the state recognizes the increase in costs for themselves, but not the dealers.

This excuse isn't going to fly either. First, if transfers are your bread and butter, having a customer come in and see how smooth your transfer process is will bring them back again for the only thing you sell, transfers. So the loss leader applies to you as well.

Second, I am willing to be a transfer only dealer doesn't have normal business hours and are by appointment only. How many people call up an appointment only transfer dealer and ask to schedule a PPT? I bet very few and even if they do, schedule it for the same time as a normal transfer and look at it as a loss leader.

Again, we don't do a lot of PPTs. So we don't complain about PPTs. Just look at doing PPTs as the same as having to write a new good cause letter for your Large Capacity Magazine Permit every year. Just part of the time spent maintaining your license.

[kemasa]

$50 for an FFL transfer is the absolute cheapest you'll find anywhere.

Incorrect. The lowest that I am aware of is $45, which I do a long gun for if the person is a member of a firearms right organization. It used to be lower, but all the permits and licenses have increased in cost.

BTW, 10 minutes for a PPT is a joke and misses many aspects. The firearm has to be logged into the bound book, the firearm marked and stored, then when the person comes back the firearm has to be found and the rest of the paperwork finished, then the bound book has to be updated and all the paperwork filed. Often you need to copy the drivers license and other documentation as well. it also assumes that you can be rude to the person and force them to quickly do all the paperwork and not talk at all. In other words, 10 minutes to do a PPT is not real when you include everything involved.

[jtmkinsd]

This excuse isn't going to fly either. First, if transfers are your bread and butter, having a customer come in and see how smooth your transfer process is will bring them back again for the only thing you sell, transfers. So the loss leader applies to you as well.

Again, I'm not saying it's all bad, and I don't want to do them. There is a balance that has to be struck between the PPT and the Dealer Transfer is all. State says I have to offer the service...ok, no problem. I would offer the service even if the State didn't mandate it. But at least raise the maximum fee to adjust for inflation? Is that asking too much? I've never said I want to be able to charge whatever I want for a PPT. What I've said is I would like it to be about $20...$15 would be ok...or should I have to offer the same service, for the same fee, for another 20 years?

Second, I am willing to be a transfer only dealer doesn't have normal business hours and are by appointment only. How many people call up an appointment only transfer dealer and ask to schedule a PPT? I bet very few and even if they do, schedule it for the same time as a normal transfer and look at it as a loss leader.

In an urban area a transfer only dealer can do between 150-250 transfers a month...more in some months...you may not do that many, being a retailer...what's the population where you are as opposed to LA County? Some don't have normal business hours...the part-timers, kitchen table guys, hobbyists. Some do have hours, because it's their primary income. But I kinda think whether they have hours or not...big or small, loss leader or not...setting a fee 20 years ago and not adjusting it at the very least for inflation is ridiculous.

Again, we don't do a lot of PPTs. So we don't complain about PPTs. Just look at doing PPTs as the same as having to write a new good cause letter for your Large Capacity Magazine Permit every year. Just part of the time spent maintaining your license.

The only time that takes is opening a Word file and changing the date.

[jtmkinsd]

I think the whole government-envolved PPT is crap. Criminals are going to buy street guns and people who nut up, buy a gun, and kill people are just going to use a knife or a street gun if they don't already own guns. The 14 day wait is an encumbrance that needs to go away. Other states have instant background checks, cash and carry. There is no reason California can't do that for PPTs as well.

Agreed...C&R rifles can do everything modern rifles can do...but they are cash and carry...there is no logical reasoning for the restriction...but it's Kalifornia

[bohoki]

Way too many avenues for fraud, straw purchase and would be a logistical nightmare. Basically your suggestion would require DOJ "tellers" to be on-hand to "verify pic match and thumb print". Also, why make them both show up twice when in the current system the seller only has to show up once, drop off the firearm, have his ID swiped, sign and he's done?

the point about seller holding gun is in response to dealers not wanting to take custody of firearm for 10 days
also if they did not take custody they would not need to have it on their bound books they should just have to do the background check on the buyer

ppt needs reform the aft thinks its just fine for a private party to sell a gun to another party why should california require it to be on the bound books seems to me legally their authority only requires the sale to go through the california dros system

[Burbur]

Since the government is the one requiring the transfer, how about they pay for it. Start by removing the DROS fee, and then going the other direction a few dollars to cover the FFL's costs.

End results: FFL makes more than his current $10 margin, and it costs the consumer nothing

[/pipedream]

[E Pluribus Unum]

Since the government is the one requiring the transfer, how about they pay for it. Start by removing the DROS fee, and then going the other direction a few dollars to cover the FFL's costs.

End results: FFL makes more than his current $10 margin, and it costs the consumer nothing

[/pipedream]

Except that the government is funded by tax money and it costs money to maintain the database.

Do away with the 14 day wait and do instant NCIC background checks like the free states do. Then there is no need for any of it.

[dachan]

Except that the government is funded by tax money and it costs money to maintain the database.

Do away with the 14 day wait and do instant NCIC background checks like the free states do. Then there is no need for any of it.

What is the 14day wait you keep refering to?