What would be a 'fair' PPT charge?

[bohoki]

You have to also follow the laws of the state that you are in, which in this case we are talking about California. So, it does not matter that Federal law does not force you to go to a FFL to do a transfer. If you do the transfer in CA you are violating CA State law if you don't go through a FFL.

In the case of a PPT, there is also a waiting period. So the FFL has to keep it for 10 days, which means that it has to be entered into the bound book, so it is not correct that the FFL only has to keep it long enough to verify the information. If the FFl does not take possession, then the transfer should be canceled and then you no longer have a transfer.

Personally, I don't care for many of the laws, if not most of them, but I also don't want free room and board, so it is best to follow the laws. If you want things to be different, that is fine, but then get it changed. Until then, things have to be done in a certain way.

So, making comments which really don't apply in CA does not do any good.

how come the seller cant keep the firearm for the 10 days and return with the buyer on day 10 to find out if he is clear or not


the complaints from the ffl is that there is not enough compensation for the amount of work and liability from doing ppt
i am just trying to make the job easier

its like they just want to charge more

[kemasa]

Because if the FFL no longer has the firearm, they can not complete the transfer. While the seller could bring the firearm back, if the CA DOJ decides to do an inspection, there would be a problem. If both the buyer and seller are prohibited, then the FFL has a real serious problem because the FFL would b required to turn the firearm over to the police, but the FFL would not have the firearm and would not be able to do so. What if the seller does not come back? What if the firearm is damaged?

Yes, the payment for a PPT is low, but what you want just makes matters worse and creates problems, also making more issues and taking more time. The fee for a PPT should go up over time, but that is not happening. I suspect if the tables were turned and you were forced to accept a really low amount for your work, you would want a raise.

If you want to make things easier and better, then get your elected politicians to allow a seller and buyer to fill out a form, send it to the CA DOJ and then when it is approved, a letter can be sent to the buyer and seller allowing the transfer to occur, without any FFLs.

[bohoki]

Because if the FFL no longer has the firearm, they can not complete the transfer. While the seller could bring the firearm back, if the CA DOJ decides to do an inspection, there would be a problem. If both the buyer and seller are prohibited, then the FFL has a real serious problem because the FFL would b required to turn the firearm over to the police, but the FFL would not have the firearm and would not be able to do so. What if the seller does not come back? What if the firearm is damaged?

Yes, the payment for a PPT is low, but what you want just makes matters worse and creates problems, also making more issues and taking more time. The fee for a PPT should go up over time, but that is not happening. I suspect if the tables were turned and you were forced to accept a really low amount for your work, you would want a raise.

If you want to make things easier and better, then get your elected politicians to allow a seller and buyer to fill out a form, send it to the CA DOJ and then when it is approved, a letter can be sent to the buyer and seller allowing the transfer to occur, without any FFLs.

i'll believe that when someone shows me the law that requires the ffl to take possession during a private party transfer

[Librarian]

i'll believe that when someone shows me the law that requires the ffl to take possession during a private party transfer

PC 12082:

12082. (a) A person shall complete any sale, loan, or transfer
of a firearm through a person licensed pursuant to Section
12071 in accordance with this section in order to comply with
subdivision (d) of Section 12072. The seller or transferor or
the person loaning the firearm shall deliver the firearm to the
dealer who shall retain possession of that firearm. The dealer
shall then deliver the firearm to the purchaser or transferee
or the person being loaned the firearm, if it is not
prohibited, in accordance with subdivision (c) of Section
12072.

[kemasa]

I like that. I do think it is interesting when a person demands to see the law and refuses to make any effort to look up the information.

[bohoki]

I like that. I do think it is interesting when a person demands to see the law and refuses to make any effort to look up the information.

because i'm lazy and i use passive aggressive tactics to get people to do the work

[E Pluribus Unum]

i'll believe that when someone shows me the law that requires the ffl to take possession during a private party transfer

PC 12082:

12082. (a) A person shall complete any sale, loan, or transfer
of a firearm through a person licensed pursuant to Section
12071 in accordance with this section in order to comply with
subdivision (d) of Section 12072. The seller or transferor or
the person loaning the firearm shall deliver the firearm to the
dealer who shall retain possession of that firearm. The dealer
shall then deliver the firearm to the purchaser or transferee
or the person being loaned the firearm, if it is not
prohibited, in accordance with subdivision (c) of Section
12072.

Damn.... serious pownage... I lol'd..

[Tankhatch]

Fair would be a $35 dollars charged (per firearm), and go to the local FFL's for processing a PPT.
Fair would be a $35 dollars charged (per firearm), and go to the local FFL's for handling / processing out of state transfers.
Fair would be, like the checking of FFL status is, be free and accurate.
Fair would be, releasing the firearm to the new owner, without a "cooling off" time if status is good.

Both State and Federal, get budget $$ based upon the need to process background checks.
They double dip, by asking for fee's for background checks be paid by the tax payer (again) for them processing background checks.

[kemasa]

Well, your idea of "fair" is quite interesting since it involves the time and effort of another person and you are saying that their time is not worth much at all. If you got your way, most likely you would not be able to find anyone to give your $10 to as they would all find something else to do.

Personally, people should be able to do a PPT without having to go to a FFL.

Please explain why a person who have gone to all the effort of getting all the licenses and permits should only get $10 ($25 is the DROS) because YOU decided to purchase a firearm from some other business, who is most likely making more profit than $10.

No waiting period would be good.

[cindynles]

Please explain why a person who have gone to all the effort of getting all the licenses and permits should only get $10 ($25 is the DROS) because YOU decided to purchase a firearm from some other business, who is most likely making more profit than $10.

It all comes down to the shop's attitude and salesmanship ability. I understand that you are only getting $10 for the paperwork and storage of firearm, but you are also getting a potenital customer in your shop twice. I'v done PPTs at shops where it was obvious they did not want to be bothered and I didn't buy anything else. But the shop I use now has a great sales staff and every time I do a PPT I wind up buying $75-$100 worth of stuff from them. It's not just me either, they get everybody doing a PPT to buy more stuff.

The staff is friendly and smart, they look at a PPT as a chance to sell some other stuff and they usually do:

"Oh wow the Glock 17 is a great gun. Do you have a holster for it, let me show you one that we have on sale. You can try it out with your new gun right here in the store and see how it fits."

"How many mags do you have? You know we have those on special this week"

"You know a sling would look great on this gun. Let me show you one"

"Are you interested in night-sights for this? We could have them installed during the 10 day wait"

[Tankhatch]

The $35 dollar fee per transaction is workable.
(not happy about it)
But I think the FFL's should have gotten the $25 dollars and big govt get the $10 dollars.

If the paper pushers screw up the paperwork, its normal.
If FFL's do not dot the "I"'s and cross the "T"'s, its their license at risk.

[kemasa]

Look at the post I was replying to. I was specifically talking about non-PPTs and the person said that:

Fair would be a $35 dollars charged (per firearm), and go to the local FFL's for handling / processing out of state transfers.

PPTs are different since the State is forcing people to go through a dealer to sell a firearm. While it is true that when a person purchases a firearm from an Internet sale, it is a bit different. Perhaps vehicle sales should be limited to $10 for the transaction :-).

What about places that just do transfers and have nothing to sell?

[Tankhatch]

What about places that just do transfers and have nothing to sell?

They used to be called "kitchen table" FFL's.
No overhead cost other than a business license.
Truth: I do not know how they made any money, back then.
In the "be fair" mode, those FFL's would make $25 per transaction (per firearm) for a PPT. (today, they can only make $10)

The "kitchen table" FFL's worried the anti's so much, that the anti's pulled political strings to get a crack down (via the BATF minions) on the small "hobby type" FFL's.

Back then, having a full fledged FFL, beat having just a C & R FFL and its limits.

[kemasa]

So, you are saying that the $35 does not include the $25 DROS fee?

Why do you think that the government should control purchases from out of state?

Do you know the cost to have all the licenses and permits, not to mention insurance? I do. It is quite a bit to pay for.

[Tankhatch]

If the fee for PPT remains at $35

Because of modern technology, the DROS paperwork fee should be reduced to $10 (instead of $25) and the FFL gets $25
(Thats the bush, I was beating around, when I said govt gets only $10)

Yes, I agree,,,, currently,,, that a PPT fee of $35 bucks, were the FFL only makes $10 bucks sucks.

What would be a fair amount, (including CYA) to cover the FFL, for a PPT transaction ??