Once Saved Always Saved ....?

[Jefferey13]

325AD date is wrong.

Yes I did use the date loosely and thats why I said about, there really isn't one single date. I was merely referencing a popular date of creation of canon which was the council of Nicea. It wasn't actually all official until the mid 1500's. I understand that most was put together however by 150AD.

[Not a Cook]

I'm guessing you're Mormon?

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Nope; I'm not a Mormon, and I'm confused as to why you would think I am (perhaps you misunderstood me?). I'm not a Mormon in faith, doctrine, background, or education, but I am always open to reasoning from the Scriptures with a Mormon (although, for some strange reason, Mormons aren't always open to reasoning from the Scriptures with me). Although I greatly disagree with Mormon theology and doctrine, I have to admit that I admire the commitment of many Mormons to their faith (which is much different than mine), and I am honored to be able to share the gospel with any Mormon who is open to it.

From the shema ("Hear our Israel, YHWH our God, YWHW is one") we know that YHWH is one God, and yet from all over the New Testament books we also know that He is three "persons" - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are distinct, yet the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one God. I can't explain how that can be (because I can't understand it), but I accept it by faith because that's what I read in the Scriptures. It's beyond my limited comprehension, but it's there all the way through - like the old Hebrew word "elohim". Doesn't make sense grammatically - a word that is both singular yet plural at the same time? And so I have a choice: either accept it by faith, or else reject it simply because I'm not smart enough to comprehend it. By God's grace, I've chosen to accept it by faith with the understanding that I, a mere creature, cannot begin to understand my Maker except for those details which He chooses to reveal of Himself to me. I thank God that He has chosen to make known the gospel of Jesus Christ to wretched me!

[Bill Carson]

Yes I did use the date loosely and thats why I said about, there really isn't one single date. I was merely referencing a popular date of creation of canon which was the council of Nicea. It wasn't actually all official until the mid 1500's. I understand that most was put together however by 150AD.

Council of Nicea is catholic stuff and the creation of canon was not discussed there.

[sonofeugene]

Council of Nicea is catholic stuff and the creation of canon was not discussed there.

It's also part of any Christian faith.

[Bill Carson]

It's also part of any Christian faith.

It has no part in my christian faith. I do not believe in catholic dogma.

[colossians323]

Yes, we happen to be participating simultaneously in different threads.

You can believe what you want, but disparaging other's beliefs is not what this thread was about. Calling the religion of others cults and discounting what they have to teach not the purpose of this forum.

Actually Dr Walter Martin who was one of the foremost authorities on cults classify JW's as a theological and sociological cult while the LS are considered just a theological cult if I remember correctly

[colossians323]

Nope; I'm not a Mormon, and I'm confused as to why you would think I am (perhaps you misunderstood me?). I'm not a Mormon in faith, doctrine, background, or education, but I am always open to reasoning from the Scriptures with a Mormon (although, for some strange reason, Mormons aren't always open to reasoning from the Scriptures with me). Although I greatly disagree with Mormon theology and doctrine, I have to admit that I admire the commitment of many Mormons to their faith (which is much different than mine), and I am honored to be able to share the gospel with any Mormon who is open to it.

From the shema ("Hear our Israel, YHWH our God, YWHW is one") we know that YHWH is one God, and yet from all over the New Testament books we also know that He is three "persons" - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are distinct, yet the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one God. I can't explain how that can be (because I can't understand it), but I accept it by faith because that's what I read in the Scriptures. It's beyond my limited comprehension, but it's there all the way through - like the old Hebrew word "elohim". Doesn't make sense grammatically - a word that is both singular yet plural at the same time? And so I have a choice: either accept it by faith, or else reject it simply because I'm not smart enough to comprehend it. By God's grace, I've chosen to accept it by faith with the understanding that I, a mere creature, cannot begin to understand my Maker except for those details which He chooses to reveal of Himself to me. I thank God that He has chosen to make known the gospel of Jesus Christ to wretched me!

Yeah, I am not sure how he got that out of your statement Either

[Grumpy_Hippie]

Faith is the assurance of things hoped for. Until we die and stand before God we only have the assurance of salvation though the promise of Jesus Christ.

I am saved because of Jesus and His Life, Death and Resurection, not by anything I have done other than asking for His forgiveness.

[drewness21]

The Bible is very clear about knowing you are saved.
1 John 5:10-13 ESV
10 Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son.
11 And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.
13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

And I agree with Not a Cook on the Trinity. That isn't a mormon belief.

[Packy14]

I know that majority of christians believe this but I'm in the minority that doesn't. For a long time I thought I was alone or one of the few and finally, I saw one pastor that had a subject about this. John Hagee is his name, so now I watch his sermon every week. I'll post verses later.

you cannot put on salvation, and then take it off, like an overcoat. Either you have come to a saving relationship with Jesus Christ, as your Lord and Savior, or you haven't. Doesn't mean you will never sin again. Doesn't mean you won't screw up terribly. It does mean you are saved in eternity. I'm sorry that you do not believe that, I believe you need to study the bible on this and pray about it.

[drewness21]

Revelation 3:1-6
1“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: ‘The words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars.“I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead.
2 Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God.
3 Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you.
4 Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy.
5 The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.
6 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’

For those who are truly saved Jesus says there is no eraser to take away your name in the Lamb's Book of Life. THAT'S PERMANENT INK, PRAISE GOD!
And He will also stand before God and as your Savior telling God that the blood He shed covered you. God sees Jesus instead of a wretched sinner.

[colossians323]

Just like Jesus did, I like how scripture is being used to clarify the answer to the question. Good job!

[Barang]

you cannot put on salvation, and then take it off, like an overcoat. Either you have come to a saving relationship with Jesus Christ, as your Lord and Savior, or you haven't. Doesn't mean you will never sin again. Doesn't mean you won't screw up terribly. It does mean you are saved in eternity. I'm sorry that you do not believe that, I believe you need to study the bible on this and pray about it.

I'm not talking about not sinning ever again. Of course we're all continue to sin, we are not yet perfected. I don't need to pray about it, God already laid it out in His Book plenty of warnings for us christians.

The verse below is talking about people who received Jesus Christ as their Savior before conversion.

Ephesians 2:8-9 - 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.


But after you get saved or converted, you need to change your mind, heart and behavior because if you don't, then verses below address that:

Matthew 7:21-23 - 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

James 2:26 - For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

John 15:6 - If anyone does not abide in me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

Philippians 2:12 - Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Mt 24: 13 But he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.

Joh 5: 28-29 Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear His voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgement.

1Ti 4: 16 Pay constant attention to yourself and to your teaching. Stay by these things, for by doing this you will save both yourself and those who listen to you.

Heb 10: 26-27 For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but [ there is ] a certain fearful expectation of judgment and [ there is ] a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition.

Jas 2: 14 Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if a certain one says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it?

[American Samurai]

John Hagee is a dispy. Dispensationalist. There are huge problems with dispensationalism.

[Doheny]

I'm not talking about not sinning ever again. Of course we're all continue to sin, we are not yet perfected. I don't need to pray about it, God already laid it out in His Book plenty of warnings for us christians.

The verse below is talking about people who received Jesus Christ as their Savior before conversion.

Ephesians 2:8-9 - 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.


But after you get saved or converted, you need to change your mind, heart and behavior because if you don't, then verses below address that:

Matthew 7:21-23Not everyonewill enter the kingdomwho practice lawlessnessJames 2:26 - For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

John 15:6 - If anyone does not abide in me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

Philippians 2:12 - Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Mt 24: 13 But he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.

Joh 5: 28-29 Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear His voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgement.

1Ti 4: 16 Pay constant attention to yourself and to your teaching. Stay by these things, for by doing this you will save both yourself and those who listen to you.

Heb 10: 26-27 For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but [ there is ] a certain fearful expectation of judgment and [ there is ] a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition.

Jas 2: 14 Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if a certain one says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it?

You seem to fall short of traditional Christian teaching. Can I ask what church you attend? Do they have a website I can see?

I ask because you said you use the NWT bible, which is a JW version. You've said you studied with the JW and Mormons. It seems that both groups have influenced your thinking. You also say you celebrate the Sabbath, which is a vernacular most traditional Christians would not use. Your expectation of man turning away from sin is unrealistic.

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