Once Saved Always Saved ....?

[Barang]

I know that majority of christians believe this but I'm in the minority that doesn't. For a long time I thought I was alone or one of the few and finally, I saw one pastor that had a subject about this. John Hagee is his name, so now I watch his sermon every week. I'll post verses later.

[sonofeugene]

You ask this as if proof of being "saved" is available. Since there is no way to really determine if one is saved or not, then it becomes as simple as whether or not you believe you are saved. If you believe you are saved, you are. And if you believe you are not saved, you are not saved. And anyone else's opinion means absolutely nothing.

The majority of religious people either forget or don't know that religious beliefs are strictly personal. One can make reasonable assumptions and postulations from a historical aspect but the conclusions one draws as a result are strictly personal beliefs. Don't confuse beliefs with facts or truth. They rarely go handin hand. Also, don't treat others beliefs as fact/truth. Think upon the subject (whatever it is) and make up your own mind.

[mif_slim]

This can open up a can of worms, but hey, what doesn't right?

I don't believe in saved once, always saved. The continual sin after repentance is not "saved."

Acts 3:19, "Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord"

Repent - feel or express sincere regret or remorse about one's wrongdoing or sin.

A person repenting from sin means that they will NOT sin again. If one is saved but goes back and do sin, that means they haven't truly repented. So, their not saved...at least in my opinion. To repent is to turn away from the old ways.

[colossians323]

ohn 10:27-30

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

I would say Jesus speaks pretty loud right here. If you are saved, you cannot walk away........and NO ONE is able to snatch them out of the Fathers hand. That means not you not anyone, that is, unless you don't believe Jesus' words right here

This can open up a can of worms, but hey, what doesn't right?

I don't believe in saved once, always saved. The continual sin after repentance is not "saved."

Acts 3:19, "Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord"

Repent - feel or express sincere regret or remorse about one's wrongdoing or sin.

A person repenting from sin means that they will NOT sin again. If one is saved but goes back and do sin, that means they haven't truly repented. So, their not saved...at least in my opinion. To repent is to turn away from the old ways.

Paul said in Romans 7:14-25

14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

The Bible is fraught with sinners who repent but still suffer the consequences of their sin. Jesus makes us spiritually sinless, but our bodies hold us in bondage with sin.

[Subotai]

With man it is impossible, with God, all things are possible.

Trust to hope <- Miyagi. LOL.

[Barang]

You ask this as if proof of being "saved" is available. Since there is no way to really determine if one is saved or not, then it becomes as simple as whether or not you believe you are saved. If you believe you are saved, you are. And if you believe you are not saved, you are not saved. And anyone else's opinion means absolutely nothing.

You can know for sure if you're saved or not. The question is, is it permanent or not.
I know for sure that I am saved as of now for as long as I abide in Christ Jesus.
It's like during Noah's 40 day flood. For as long as I stayed in the ark, I'm saved. Get off the boat and you drown.

This can open up a can of worms, but hey, what doesn't right?

I don't believe in saved once, always saved. The continual sin after repentance is not "saved."

Acts 3:19, "Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord"

Repent - feel or express sincere regret or remorse about one's wrongdoing or sin.

A person repenting from sin means that they will NOT sin again. If one is saved but goes back and do sin, that means they haven't truly repented. So, their not saved...at least in my opinion. To repent is to turn away from the old ways.

Totally agree and below are some more scriptures that address this topic:

Mt 24: 13 But he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.

Joh 5: 28-29 Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear His voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgement.

1Ti 4: 16 Pay constant attention to yourself and to your teaching. Stay by these things, for by doing this you will save both yourself and those who listen to you.

Heb 10: 26-27 For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but [ there is ] a certain fearful expectation of judgment and [ there is ] a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition.

Jas 2: 14 Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if a certain one says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it?

[Not a Cook]

You can know for sure if you're saved or not. The question is, is it permanent or not.
I know for sure that I am saved as of now for as long as I abide in Christ Jesus.
It's like during Noah's 40 day flood. For as long as I stayed in the ark, I'm saved. Get off the boat and you drown.



Totally agree and below are some more scriptures that address this topic:

Mt 24: 13 But he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.

Joh 5: 28-29 Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear His voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgement.

1Ti 4: 16 Pay constant attention to yourself and to your teaching. Stay by these things, for by doing this you will save both yourself and those who listen to you.

Heb 10: 26-27 For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but [ there is ] a certain fearful expectation of judgment and [ there is ] a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition.

Jas 2: 14 Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if a certain one says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it?

I'll bite... I believe the Scriptures do teach "once saved, always saved." Each of the passages you quoted above point to this. However, the big question is this: what does it mean to be saved? According to Matthew 24:13, it seems that the one who endures to the end is the one who is saved. It is not the one who makes a profession of faith, and then "falls away". So... the "equation" (so-to-speak) becomes something like this:

If "once saved" = "always saved",
and "saved" = "he who endures (continues faithfully following Christ) to the end",

Then it looks like:
"he who endures to the end" = "always saved",
and conversely:
"he who does NOT endure to the end" = "always NOT saved".

I just don't see the debate (although I know a lot of folks who debate this one to death). If you're saved, you'll always be saved, AND that will be evidenced as you will continue to walk with Him. If you don't endure to the end, you weren't ever saved. Being saved isn't about a mere profession... it is about receiving the new birth in Christ and walking in fellowship with the Holy Spirit in obedience to Him. I honestly think the debate exists simply because we (I know many folks won't like this) cheapen the definition of being "saved", and assume it means less than it does.

How can someone who is born again with new life in Christ and filled with the Holy Spirit, be UNborn? Or how can someone given eternal life die? If a professor falls away, it doesn't mean that they "lost their salvation"... it point to the fact that they weren't ever saved. The question again becomes: what does it mean to be "saved"?

Without going more in depth, Colossians323 cited two clear passages, which mesh perfectly and totally agree with those those Barang cited above.

[Barang]

If "once saved" = "always saved",
and "saved" = "he who endures (continues faithfully following Christ) to the end",

Then it looks like:
"he who endures to the end" = "always saved",
and conversely:
"he who does NOT endure to the end" = "always NOT saved".

I just don't see the debate (although I know a lot of folks who debate this one to death). If you're saved, you'll always be saved, AND that will be evidenced as you will continue to walk with Him. If you don't endure to the end, you weren't ever saved. Being saved isn't about a mere profession... it is about receiving the new birth in Christ and walking in fellowship with the Holy Spirit in obedience to Him. I honestly think the debate exists simply because we (I know many folks won't like this) cheapen the definition of being "saved", and assume it means less than it does.

No argument here, professing to be a christian doesn't mean you are, it's how you walk according to the Word in newness of life.
Also, what cheapen "Saved" is the "hyper-Grace". They use "Grace" as a license to sin.

John 15:6 - If anyone does not abide in me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

Philippians 2:12 - Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Philippians 3:18-19 - For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame - who set their minds on earthly things.

2Peter 2:20-22 - For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them then the beginning for it will have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, then having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "a dog returns to his own vomit," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire."

[Not a Cook]

Barang - I totally agree with what you wrote above.

[Doheny]

Yes, once saved, always saved. God will not forsake you.


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[Watchur6]

After one has repented means they will sin no more?

[Barang]

After one has repented means they will sin no more?

They will continue to sin.
The difference is turning 180 degrees from sin.
The difference is between "Practicing Sin Willfully" and "Living In Newness of Life."

[Doheny]

They will continue to sin.

The difference is turning 180 degrees from sin.

The difference is between "Practicing Sin Willfully" and "Living In Newness of Life."

Hi, are you Jehovah Witness?

You use terms that aren't common and I noted in the bible thread you mentioned the New World Translation of the bible.

I only ask because it will help to understand your views on some issues.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2

[Barang]

Hi, are you Jehovah Witness?

You use terms that aren't common and I noted in the bible thread you mentioned the New World Translation of the bible.

I only ask because it will help to understand your views on some issues.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2

Negative.

I Bible studied with Mormon & Jehovah Witness years ago. The latter gave me free NWT which I use to present. My wife uses NKJV and we cross reference when we read on sabbath so I'm not misquoting the scriptures cited . You can read and compare them with your version and see if they deviate from the Word.

[pbsmind]

My View

I believe that once you are saved you are always saved. Though I am not going to argue for either side, but express what I believe what it means to be a Christian.

If you are truly saved you will strive to obey God and glorify him with your life. Anyone can claim to be Christian... some polls say that the US has 80% or higher reporting to being a Christian. Saying that you are a Christian without faith in Jesus Christ, or just being a good person is not good enough (James 2:19, Matthew 7:21-23).

Being saved, a Christian, is more than just going to Church. It is not inherited from your parents. It is more than living a good life and doing good deeds. Any of these things without faith in Jesus Christ is worth nothing, for everyone has sinned and that sin separates us from God (Isaiah 64:6, Romans 3:10-12 Romans 3:23, Romans 6:23).

Becoming a Christian is easy. It takes faith that Jesus is God, that he came to earth to die on the cross for our sins, that through his death and resurrection he conquered death becoming the perfect eternal sacrifice and payment so that we might be saved (John 3:16, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 10:9-13).

Once becoming a Christian, your life should reflect that. Your actions should align with the Bible says is righteous, you should strive to glorify God with your life. Christians are not supposed to live in sin (Romans 6:1-2) but show the results of Christ being in their life (James 2:26, Galatians 5:22-23). One of the main things that Christians are called to do is love (Matthew 22:36-40, John 13:34-35).

So the TL;DR version:
* Saying you're a Christian alone doesn't mean much (James 2:19, Matthew 7:21-23).
* Your best isn't good enough, everyone has sinned (Isaiah 64:6, Romans 3:10-12 Romans 3:23, Romans 6:23).
* Being saved is through Jesus Christ alone (John 3:16, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 10:9-13).
* A Christians' life should reflect Christ, should not be lived in sin, and show love for one another (Romans 6:1-2, James 2:26, Galatians 5:22-23, Matthew 22:36-40, John 13:34-35)



Isaiah 64:6 - For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

Matthew 7:21-23 - 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

Matthew 22:36-40 - 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 13:34-35 - 34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Romans 3:10-12 - 10 as it is written, “There is none righteous, not even one; 11 There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God; 12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one.”

Romans 3:23 - for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 6:1-2 - 1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 10:9-13 - 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Galatians 5:22-23 - 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

Ephesians 2:8-9 - 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

James 2:19 - You believe that [r]God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

James 2:26 - For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.