Once Saved Always Saved ....?

[American Samurai]

It isn't bunk because its different from what I believe. Its bunk because its simply not true.

[Lineman101]

Lineman101:
I am not a Greek scholar by any means, but you are demonstrating a measure of bias in your claim that the NWT is wrong regarding Heb. 1:6. The Greek word for worship as used at Heb. 1:6 is proskuneo and it is made up of two words, pro= towards and kuneo= to kiss. Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words defines proskuneo as "to make obeisance, do reverence to, an act of homage or reverence to Christ." In the context, the angels are called upon to honor Christ because of his excellency and authority, not to worship him as God Almighty. It is no surprise that supporters of the Trinity doctrine would be unhappy with the later (1984) version. It does not appear that the use of the word "obeisance" in Heb. 1:6 is wrong but merely serves to add clarity to the subject. It is a stretch to say that the NWT rendering is intentionally misleading and "purposely hide(s) the truth of the Gospel." W.E. Vine was a Trinitarian and opposer of JW, but it appears that the Greek word for worship as used by the NWT for Heb. 1:6 is accurate.

It is interesting that you quote Vine. Vine does not use the word "Christ" in his definition. He used the word "God." See the following paste:

"to make obeisance, do reverence to" (from pros, "towards," and kuneo, "to kiss"), is the most frequent word rendered "to worship." It is used of an act of homage or reverence (a) to God, e.g., (bold mine)

http://www.studylight.org/dictionary/ved/view.cgi?n=3398

So it looks as though the Watchtower may be trying again to hide the fact that Vine uses a big "G" in his definition. Thus Christ = God; by your own admission in the quote.

God bless,
Lineman101

[Lineman101]

Hi-
Here's a little more clarity on the subject. The Interlinear Edition as published by the Watchtower sheds more light on the verse:
The Kingdom Interlinear Edition; both Greek and English translation:


It is certainly interesting that the scholars that the Watchtower used, did in fact note that the word is obeisance. They wrote this under the Greek. But they understood that the correct translation of the word to English. You can clearly see this in the English to the right. They knew what the word meant. So I ask again, does the Watchtower Organization have something to intentionally hide?


Closeup of the verse in the discussion:
from the Kingdom Interlinear Edition, published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society:


God bless,
Lineman101

[mfj93444]

Lineman101-
Maybe you missed this from your own copy and paste of Vine's....

(b) to Christ, e.g., Matthew 2:2,8,11; 8:2; 9:18; 14:33; 15:25; 20:20; 28:9,17; John 9:38; Hebrews 1:6 , in a quotation from the Sept. of Deuteronomy 32:43 , referring to Christ's Second Advent;

[Lineman101]

Nope, seen it. I pasted the part you quoted. But still, the Watchtower knew the meaning and seems to have an agenda. See the Interlinear Edition.
God bless,
Lineman101

[Lineman101]

Lineman101-
Maybe you missed this from your own copy and paste of Vine's....

(b) to Christ, e.g., Matthew 2:2,8,11; 8:2; 9:18; 14:33; 15:25; 20:20; 28:9,17; John 9:38; Hebrews 1:6 , in a quotation from the Sept. of Deuteronomy 32:43 , referring to Christ's Second Advent;

Hi-
I also wanted to respond to the second half of the Vine quote. As the Vine quote indicates, "Hebrews 1:6, in a quotation from the Sept. of Deuteronomy 32:43, referring to Christ's Second Advent." I wanted to paste the Septuagint here on Deut. 32:43

43 Rejoice, ye heavens, with him, and let all the angels of God worship him; rejoice ye Gentiles, with his people, and let all the sons of God strengthen themselves in him; for he will avenge the blood of his sons, and he will render vengeance, and recompense justice to his enemies, and will reward them that hate him; and the Lord shall purge the land of his people. (bold mine)

http://www.ecmarsh.com/lxx/Deuteronomy/index.htm

The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society changed the meaning of the word and are intentionally trying to hide something. I mean, it is a direct quote... It certainly provides that Jesus receives the same worship and adoration as Jehovah.

God bless,
Lineman101

[Timberwolf]

God gave us free will and we are free to walk away from God just like we choose to walk with him. If we walk away, though He always loves us, his Grace will not be with us.

[eb47]

^^^Agreed^^^