Calvinism

[huskydog]

Read The Formula of Concord - the genius of even the second generation of Lutheran fathers is, they ANTICIPATED - and headed off at the pass - Calvin's errors... 50 years BEFORE there was a Calvin!

Calvin died 18yrs. after Luther, so how could there have been a next generation of Lutheran's 50yrs. prior to Calvin????????????

[Just Dave]

1 Peter 3:15

but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;

This is what Christians defend and how we do it.
The hope that is in us is Christ, not theology.

[damon1272]

1 Peter 3:15

This is what Christians defend and how we do it.
The hope that is in us is Christ, not theology.

Well said.

[Doheny]

I wasn't going to post here anymore, but I'll make this exception. If there is anyone out there looking at this thread and is earnestly trying to understand the issues involved with the theology of "Calvinism" or the Reformed faith I would be happy to talk privately. Whether by PM, email, on the phone or even in person if local. What I won't do is publicly post rebuttals to the historically wrong, ignorant, and asinine comments posted so far.

That's a very Christian response.

[Just Dave]

That's a very Christian response.

See how they are?

[huskydog]

See how they are?

I think it's unfair to lump us all together. Fact is the other side is overwhelmingly more unkind when it comes to the subject at hand. I have in the past attempted to defend the subject biblically and philosophically and can only remember 1 time that the other side could keep their temper in check. I had someone that called themselves an OSAS Arminian pm me just to let me know I was going to hell, because I'm a Calvinist. I know they are not all like this........... Two great evangelists on other sides of the subject John Wesley and George Whitefield where able to work together should be an example for us.

[huskydog]

1 Peter 3:15

This is what Christians defend and how we do it.
The hope that is in us is Christ, not theology.

Yes that sound nice, but how do you know who Christ is and what he accomplished with out theology??

[Just Dave]

I think it's unfair to lump us all together. Fact is the other side is overwhelmingly more unkind when it comes to the subject at hand. I have in the past attempted to defend the subject biblically and philosophically and can only remember 1 time that the other side could keep their temper in check. I had someone that called themselves an OSAS Arminian pm me just to let me know I was going to hell, because I'm a Calvinist. I know they are not all like this........... Two great evangelists on other sides of the subject John Wesley and George Whitefield where able to work together should be an example for us.

Yes that sound nice, but how do you know who Christ is and what he accomplished with out theology??

Look I'm not lumping everyone together on this, ether a person gets their identity in Christ or they don't.

I happen to know a lot of people who take a Calvinistic stance on things but they are Christians first and get their identity in Christ...You won't catching them preaching Calvinism.
I myself take a soft Calvinistic stance on salvation, the sovereignty of God and individual choice. However, I have a good understanding of how these things work together to accomplish God's purpose and will but like the Trinity it's to profound to put into words.

[huskydog]

To any who think that Calvin invented things 16 centuries after Christ, here are some quotes from St. Augustine (why the Roman Church canonized him I'm at a loss since they would have to say his teachings were anathema)

"And it was chiefly by this testimony that I myself also was convinced when I was in a similar error, thinking that faith whereby we believe in God is not God's gift, but that it is in us from ourselves, and that by it we obtain the gifts of God, whereby we may live temperately and righteously and piously in this world. For I did not think that faith was preceded by God's grace, so that by its means would by given to us what we might profitably ask, except that we could not believe if the proclamation of the truth did not precede; but that we should consent when the gospel was preached to us I thought was our own doing,, and came to us from ourselves. And this my error is sufficiently indicated in some small works of mine written before my episcopate"

" And he says that a man is justified by faith and not by works, because faith itself is first given........"

"What is the meaning of 'Every man that has heard from the Father, and has learned, comes unto me' except that there is none who hears from the Father, and learns, who comes not to me?. For if every one who has heard from the Father, and has learned, comes, certainly every one who does not come has not heard from the Father; for if he had heard and learned, he would come. For no one has heard and learned, and has not come: but every one as the truth declares, who has heard for the Father, and has learned, comes. Far removed from the senses of the flesh is this teaching in which the Father is heard, and teaches to come to the Son"

"This grace, therefore, which is hiddenly bestowed in human hearts by the Divine gift, is rejected by no hard heart, because it is given for the sake of first taking away the hardness of the heart"

"And if He had willed to teach even those to whom the word of the cross is foolishness to come to Christ, beyond all doubt these also would have come"

"When therefore the gospel is preached, some believe, some believe not; but they who believe at the voice of the preacher form without, hear the Father from within, and learn; while they who do not believe, hear outwardly, but inwardly do not hear of learn, that is to say, to the former it is given to believe; to the latter it is not given"

"Faith, then, as well in its beginning as in its completion, is God's gift; and let no one have any doubt whatever, unless he desires to resist the plainest sacred writings, that this gift is given to some, while to some it is not given"

[huskydog]

Look I'm not lumping everyone together on this, ether a person gets their identity in Christ or they don't.

I happen to know a lot of people who take a Calvinistic stance on things but they are Christians first and get their identity in Christ...You won't catching them preaching Calvinism.
I myself take a soft Calvinistic stance on salvation, the sovereignty of God and individual choice. However, I have a good understanding of how these things work together to accomplish God's purpose and will but like the Trinity it's to profound to put into words.

We are Christian first and foremost, but is the preaching of the doctrines of Grace (nicknamed Calvinism) wrong if it what the Triune God did in the salvation of man by Grace alone? Do we not discuss the Trinity because it to profound to put into words? I used to deny the Trinity, if no one ever discussed it where would I be.......

[WASR10]

I don't believe Calvin invented doctrine. I do believe he organized and built upon the teachings of his predecessors, such as Augustine of Hippo.

[huskydog]

I don't believe Calvin invented doctrine. I do believe he organized and built upon the teachings of his predecessors, such as Augustine of Hippo.

I always liked this C.H.Spurgeon quote:
"The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached is the truth I must preach today or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth, I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine, John Knox's gospel is my gospel..."

[Just Dave]

We are Christian first and foremost, but is the preaching of the doctrines of Grace (nicknamed Calvinism) wrong if it what the Triune God did in the salvation of man by Grace alone? Do we not discuss the Trinity because it to profound to put into words? I used to deny the Trinity, if no one ever discussed it where would I be.......

And some will proclaim they are Calvinist, the first words out of their mouth are "I'm a Calvinist" not "I'm a Christian".

Do you understand the point I'm trying to make?

They get their identity in a school of theology not Christ.

From here on out when somebody says to me that they are a Calvinist I will encourage them to become a Christian.

Then when they say "but I am a Christian" to which I will reply "but you just told me you were a Calvinist".

Identity

Identity

Identity

The Bible is full of "in Christ" proclamations, I have yet to see one "in Calvinism" proclamation.

Like I said in my prior comment I know lots of Christians who take a Calvinistic stance, however they are not Calvinists.

[huskydog]

[QUOTE=Just Dave;17289694]((((And some will proclaim they are Calvinist, the first words out of their mouth are "I'm a Calvinist" not "I'm a Christian".))))

Calvinist = Christian that holds to the doctrines of Grace.
When we say we are Calvinist it is saying we are Christians that believe this doctrine which we hold are the truth.

((((Do you understand the point I'm trying to make?))))

I see what you are saying but don't agree.

((((They get their identity in a school of theology not Christ.)))

I'm a Methodist, I'm a Baptist, I'm a Lutheran, etc; don't most have an identity..

((((From here on out when somebody says to me that they are a Calvinist I will encourage them to become a Christian.

Then when they say "but I am a Christian" to which I will reply "but you just told me you were a Calvinist".))))

I don't know how to reply to this............

Identity

Identity

Identity

((((The Bible is full of "in Christ" proclamations, I have yet to see one "in Calvinism" proclamation.)))))

Yes, Paul's "in Christ" proclamations..... The Lord's mystical union with believer's. I don't even know if there is anything meaningful written on the subject outside of Reformed writers. We believe he "CHOSE US IN HIM before the foundation of the world" and "IN HIM we have redemption through his blood" To say we are Calvinist's in no way removes our identity as Christians and in no way has us undermining the "IN HIM" sayings.

((((Like I said in my prior comment I know lots of Christians who take a Calvinistic stance, however they are not Calvinists.))))

When I was attending an Arminian church no one except the pastor knew I was a Calvinist. It wasn't my place to undermine the pastor, but outside the church I feel free to discuss these things if someone inquires. If I'm convinced of its veracity why would I not want to discuss it............

[RAMCLAP]

And some will proclaim they are Calvinist, the first words out of their mouth are "I'm a Calvinist" not "I'm a Christian".

Do you understand the point I'm trying to make?

They get their identity in a school of theology not Christ.

From here on out when somebody says to me that they are a Calvinist I will encourage them to become a Christian.

Then when they say "but I am a Christian" to which I will reply "but you just told me you were a Calvinist".

Identity

Identity

Identity

The Bible is full of "in Christ" proclamations, I have yet to see one "in Calvinism" proclamation.

Like I said in my prior comment I know lots of Christians who take a Calvinistic stance, however they are not Calvinists.

You made the accusation. Now prove your point with some quotes. I want to see some quotes of Calvinist non-Christians. Show any if you can. I didn't want to take part in any of this discussion because I knew it would degenerate to this filth. Orthodox Christians denying Christ??? You made the accusation. Now prove that Calvinists are non-Christian. Show me an orthodox Calvinist who denies Christ and I'll leave the Presbyterian Church. Show me. Go for it. Remember, orthodox. Not of your own imagination.