I Stopped Caring Today

[Jed Meyers]

I would encourage you to research the grand jury indictment process. It is a far more complex process than the "ordinary" routine. So to say cops are not being tried (when trial comes AFTER a finding of probable cause) is an ignorant statement. I would listen to your argument if grand juries hadn't heard both cases, or if no court process had occurred at all. Every single OIS is investigated by a district attorney's office. Sometimes that investigation is deferred to the grand jury to be more thorough and transparent.

I don't consider myself an expert in law, but I'm far better than average. That being said, I feel I have an educated opinion on law.

I am not an engineer, and I imagine I have much less education than required to form an opinion about engineering. That being said, I would never second guess an engineers judgment or try to tell them about structural integrity.

So, just to move on to some examples - when grand jury decided not to indict officer Pantaleo in your opinion it was a completely justified decision and you do not have any problems with it since they are more qualified? Can you show me similar example where a "normal" person was not indicted after chocking someone to death?

[IrishJoe3]

What if a citizen genuinely needs to be somewhere asap - can he speed too?

There are plenty of people I've stopped for speeding that I used officer discretion and chose NOT to cite them because in my opinion they had a good reason to be speeding.

[Jed Meyers]

Yes, read the vehicle code. But it is up to the citizen to be educated on that code and assure compliance with it.

Read the vehicle code - didn't find anything similar to what you are talking about. Can you name a specific section?

Just like citizens ability to arrest. You better know what you're doing

I have yet to see a recent citizen's arrest that did not result in criminal and/or civil charges to the person executing the arrest. LEOs seem to be quite well protected from both of those, so I suggest to let them continue doing the arrests in the future.

[IrishJoe3]

So, just to move on to some examples - when grand jury decided not to indict officer Pantaleo in your opinion it was a completely justified decision and you do not have any problems with it since they are more qualified? Can you show me similar example where a "normal" person was not indicted after chocking someone to death?

They interviewed the witnesses. They saw all the evidence. They know all the facts whereas you nor I do not. So yes, I trust their decision. What makes YOUR factless and uneducated opinion so gospel?

[TRICKSTER]

So, just to move on to some examples - when grand jury decided not to indict officer Pantaleo in your opinion it was a completely justified decision and you do not have any problems with it since they are more qualified? Can you show me similar example where a "normal" person was not indicted after chocking someone to death?

I don't have a problem with it. They were presented with the actual evidence and made their decision. They saw the evidence and the autopsy report which showed that he was not choked to death. Maybe some here don't have a problem with the Grand Jury decision because we actually took the time to find out as much as we could about the case. Obviously, based on your "chocking someone to death" comment, you haven't.

[Jed Meyers]

There are plenty of people I've stopped for speeding that I used officer discretion and chose NOT to cite them because in my opinion they had a good reason to be speeding.

OK, so you as a reasonable police officer used your discretion wisely and tried not to place an unnecessary financial burden on a common citizen. But who's discretion will be used to determine if the officer was speeding due to a reasonable cause or not?

[TRICKSTER]

I have yet to see a recent citizen's arrest that did not result in criminal and/or civil charges to the person executing the arrest. LEOs seem to be quite well protected from both of those, so I suggest to let them continue doing the arrests in the future.

What are you mumbling about. I accepted hundreds of citizens arrest over the course of my career, none of which resulted in criminal charges against the person executing the arrest. I have also never been called as a witness in a civil case against someone who executed a citizens arrest. If someone was getting sued, I as the accepting officer would have been subpoenaed to testify.

[nickbackouris]

Trickster, you beat me to it.

But the citizen arrests that happen every day never make it on the news

[Jed Meyers]

I don't have a problem with it. They were presented with the actual evidence and made their decision. They saw the evidence and the autopsy report which showed that he was not choked to death. Maybe some here don't have a problem with the Grand Jury decision because we actually took the time to find out as much as we could about the case. Obviously, based on your "chocking someone to death" comment, you haven't.

So you are saying that there is no way that report does not reflect the actual cause of death, and the only thing that matters is for the paperwork to be in order?

And, by the way: "On Aug. 1, a New York City medical examiner determined that the cause of death in the Garner case was “homicide,” specifically the neck compressions from the Pantaleo’s chokehold and “the compression of [Garner’s] chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police,” according to spokeswoman, Julie Bolcer." - not choked to death?

[WyattandDoc]

LE would probably be a lot more popular if there were no war on drugs. Its the justification for to many nasty things.
Hell every other cop I see here in fresno is wearing more tactical gear than a grunt in Baghdad circa 2004.
My local clovis PD had a field day at the school my wife works at. They showed up in some sort of armored 'rescue' vehicle (I believe it was a bearcat). In addition to this I know they have an MRAP. Good thing too with all the RPG fire in clovis.
Seeing this is unsettling. If you want to be loved by the people be cordial public servants, if you want to be hated like an occupation army keep wearing the tac vests and driving bearcats. Simple.

Until an active shooter shows up at your wife's school, right?

[Jed Meyers]

What are you mumbling about. I accepted hundreds of citizens arrest over the course of my career, none of which resulted in criminal charges against the person executing the arrest. I have also never been called as a witness in a civil case against someone who executed a citizens arrest. If someone was getting sued, I as the accepting officer would have been subpoenaed to testify.

Do you have any official statistics to support that? What I would like to see is the number of arrest made and the crimes the arestees were charged with in the end.

[TRICKSTER]

No, he was not choked to death. Please provide the link to the webpage that you are referencing.

[Jed Meyers]

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Until an active shooter shows up at your wife's school, right?

Active Shooter Events from 2000 to 2012.
Out of 104 incidents, they had the following resolution:

49% of events stopped before the police could arrive
42% of events (44 total) resulted in the killer committing suicide, of which 29 killers committed suicide prior to police arrival.
43% of events (45 total) result in the attacker being stopped with force, either by civilians or law enforcement.
When civilians intervene before LE arrives, they stop 33% of mass shootings.
Slightly less than 3% of mass shootings are stopped by armed civilians shooting the attacker.

[Jed Meyers]

No, he was not choked to death. Please provide the link to the webpage that you are referencing.

Google is your friend. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/p...ical-examiner/

[TRICKSTER]

Do you have any official statistics to support that? What I would like to see is the number of arrest made and the crimes the arestees were charged with in the end.

You made the claim and then you want me to do your homework also.
So what you are saying is that you just made this all up. Classic.