Question...anyone switching back to 9mm?

[Falconis]

We didn't switch at the last go around, but the co workers who did test fire the guns did say they were a lot more accurate with the 9MM. I think for most of us, it's just a mass x velocity / quantity thing that we keep in the back of our heads that keeps us voting for the .40's.

[fullrearview]

I tried to switch to a 9 when I had to go dimlight qual Thursday night....range was all out of them.

So after I qual'd, I snuck some online time before going in service and ordered 3 MecGar 15rd .40 cal mags.....

Still allowed to carry any P series down there right?

[Ron-Solo]

Back in October, an officer from Glendale, Arizona, PD shot a suspect dead center in the forehead with a .40 cal after the suspect shot and then executed Officer Brad Jones. The suspect is still alive.

My point is this, not every round will perform perfectly, whether it is 9, .40, or .45. Even with excellent shot placement, things don't always go as planned. Officer Jones was initially hit multiple times before he went down. He possibly could have survived, except the suspect took his gun from him and stood over him, firing several more rounds into him before fleeing. He survived long enough to get to a hospital, but the damage was too severe.

Luck has a major role in gunfights.

Rest in Peace, Brad. I only met you once, but your professionalism impressed this old sheepdog.

[bcj128]

My point in starting this thread is not about a caliber war, it's just some fact finding.

Whenever I hear someone say, "this tactic is the ONLY way to..." or "only x caliber is worthy of a man to carry" I run away from the fool speaking...

There is no magic caliber. Nor is there any single way/tactic to do most things...(I'll admit there may be some exceptions - but I can't think of any.)

I'm a big proponent of giving officers/shooters tools for their tactical tool box. Give them as many tools that they can reasonably instill in themselves through training and equip them to survive a deadly force encounter.

[Notorious]

Started with a department issued G22. Went to a personal G21. Then went to a personal G34. Reason being that with the new premium personal defense ammunition, effectiveness is measured in miniscule increments when it comes to pistol rounds.

Also, with the proliferation of baddies on drugs or wearing body armor... or both... are you really counting on a 45 or 40 to do better than a 9 when you do your job and hit the perp where you are supposed to hit?

I shot the best I have ever shot with the 40, noticeably slower with the 45 and now that I am getting used to the 9, I am getting up there with the 9 in accuracy and ease of handling. I figure the 9 gives me extra rounds and having extra rounds never hurts.

To those who say they are fine with less rounds and more ammo... well... that will be fine for those encounters which you can end with a few shots... and not so much when you need every single round, like in an active shooter scenario... or any other time when you are in an extended firefight.

Now, the chances are slim to none for most patrol guys to need the extra ammo, but then again, so are the chances of any normal patrol guy to get in a shooting in the first place. What was the percentage again? 95% of cops go through their careers never having to use their duty weapon in the line of duty?

[J_B]

Still allowed to carry any P series down there right?

I thought we could carry any P series. I just never bothered to ask as I don't want my personal taken from me after a shooting.

When they returned my issued 226 to me after mine, it was dirtier than a Catholic school girl. I clean mine once a week. So when I gave it up, it wasn't that dirty at all since I had cleaned it the day before the incident. I mentioned that to range and they just smiled.

[fullrearview]

I thought we could carry any P series. I just never bothered to ask as I don't want my personal taken from me after a shooting.

When they returned my issued 226 to me after mine, it was dirtier than a Catholic school girl. I clean mine once a week. So when I gave it up, it wasn't that dirty at all since I had cleaned it the day before the incident. I mentioned that to range and they just smiled.

LOL... All that white glove treatment during the academy and that happens.

That is crazy they have no more 9mm though...

[emvampyre]

After a bad experience with my departments issue 9mm duty round (Pre Winchest SXT) during a shooting in 1995, I was one of the first in line to transition to the H&K USP in .45ACP. I shoot my USP better than my issue 92FS when qualifying (still miss my good old S&W Mod. 66, but I digress), and don't feel the 13 round vs. 16 round in the weapon difference all that big of a deal.

Now, all that being said, I have seen several different reports on the 9mm SXT rounds both in gellatin and real tissue which compare very favorable with the .45ACP SXT wound data. When my department transitions me to the S&W 9mm M&P, I will let the range time be my deciding factor on whether I go back to the 9mm weapon. I am a big believer on the gun I can shoot well being the deciding factor on what I carry.

[ap3572001]

As ammunition gets better , I see many LEO's liking 9mm again.

Most 9mm models offer 20-33 rounds extended factory magazines.

Also , from recent training exercises we noticed that ability to fire a lot of rounds with speed and accuracy WITHOUT having to reload can be a real lifesaver

[oddjob]

In the N. Cal/Central Valley area (including some state and federal agencies) I don't know of any agencies going back to the 9mm as standard issue. I'm sure there are a few out there. Some have always allowed the 9mm as an optional choice and so they never "went away" from the 9mm (45 acp as well).

As a general rule most have been pleased with the performance of the .40 S&W. I've heard more complaints about the shooting platform (Glock vs Sig & etc) than calibers.

[NuGunner]

I'm going to 9MM from 45 (Sig P226 from H&K USP 45). Weight is my 1st reason. 2nd, in gelatin testing my dept's Ranger SXT 230gr 45 performs excellent. In the real world, my dept's experience shows it doesn't reliably expand. The Ranger SXT 147gr 9MM's real world performance is excellent.

I guess the results could be a wash if you consider a 45 that doesn't expand and a 9MM that does has almost the same diameter. Then again when you shoot steel plates there is no question as to the 45's power. This debate will never end.

you should try a +P 45. It'll give you the expansion plus velocity. So I hear from our rangemaster.

[NuGunner]

I read the LAPD is issuing Glock 9mm instead of .40 at the academy. I dont know the reasons. ( not a LEO)

9mm is cheaper.

[ap3572001]

Glock 22 is VERY pupular and for a good reason. Plus now You can get Glock factory 22 rd magazines

[Bobby Ricigliano]

you should try a +P 45. It'll give you the expansion plus velocity. So I hear from our rangemaster.

We don't have the luxury of using whatever ammo we like. Whether 9mm or. 45 there is a specified duty round that must be used.

[tyrist]

you should try a +P 45. It'll give you the expansion plus velocity. So I hear from our rangemaster.

I don't know about other firearms but apparently the +P 45 causes damage to the glock 21. We now have to use the non +P stuff which has me considering carrying 9mm.