5150 Holds. . .

[rg_1111@yahoo.com]

If I cared more about my account, I'd think more before I posted.

Edited -leelaw

[Kestryll]

Stop calling it a HIPPO violation, all of your coworkers are laughing at you, if you do in fact work in an ER. Are you housekeeping or engineering? I only ask because I can't figure out how you wouldn't know it is HIPAA if you did work frequently in the ER. Come to think of it, even housekeeping and engineering should know about HIPAA.

Who gives a damn what he calls it, knock off the trolling crap or I'll bounce BOTH OF YOU THE HELL OFF THIS FORUM!!!!

This bickering crap is REALLY PISSING ME OFF!!


IS THIS CLEAR??

[B.D.Dubloon]

Who gives a damn what he calls it, knock off the trolling crap or I'll bounce BOTH OF YOU THE HELL OFF THIS FORUM!!!!

This bickering crap is REALLY PISSING ME OFF!!


IS THIS CLEAR??

Jeez.

[p7m8jg]

I know everybody gets concerned about these situations under W&I 5150. The fact remains that if you are going through hard times (as everyone does at one time or another) and you "voluntarily" commit yourself to a treatment facility, the firearms restriction only lasts as long as you're committed to that facility(yeah, like you'd have a gun there anyway). When you get out from a "voluntary" commitment, there is no restriction on firearms ownership.

It's the INvoluntary committment to worry about, and then the firearms restriction lasts 5 years (better than forever), and you have the right to have a hearing in Superior Court to remove the restriction. A lot of people do this.

I"ve done them both ways - sometimes I've argued to the Judge - "Absolutely not" and other times I've said "No objection to removing the firearms restriction." It all depends on how serious the mental illness is, how long lasting, how many previous commitments, and how serious the person is about seeking treatment and making it so everybody is safe.

And I appreciate Kestryll's moderation of the forum. Thanks.

[1911_sfca]

You are totally wrong, starting from paragraph #1. Please don't post when you don't know what you're talking about.

Didnt spend the time to read all the replies, but 5150 holds are for evaluation purposes only. If I recall correctly, they used to have to report them to the DOJ but don't anymore. I think it was '98 or something when they changed the law about that.

The issue is that some, (by all means not all of them and in fact its a small amount, but it still happens) law enforcement officers write 5150's for stupid/non-legit reasons based on their lazyness in not wanting to deal with them, so they pass them on to us (EMS).

When I first started in EMS I transported quite a few BS holds and they were evaluated and released within the hour. I had an S.O. try to put someone on a hold for gravely disabled. It was a 36 y/o female who was walking home from a friends house. She had 3 blocks to go and had already walked 2. She was drunk, but not totally wasted. We showed up, asked him what he was holding her for and he said that she didnt know where she was and didnt know the address of the house she came from, nor the house where she was going. I put her in our unit and started asking her some questions. Keep in mind we were in a tract home subdivision.

me: "do you know where you are?"
her: "i dont know the cross streets here, but i know im in the **** and **** area. (major cross streets)"
me: "do you know where you are coming from?"
her: "my friend ****'s house a few blocks over, but i dont know her address"
me: "do you know where you are going?"
her: "to my house, but i just moved in there a few weeks ago and don't know the address there either. But its only 3 blocks down **** street."
me: "what year is it?"
her: "2008" (was correct)
me: "who is the president?"
her: "bush" (was correct)
me: "so do you want to hurt yourself or others?"
her: "nooooooo, I just want to go home and go to sleep."

So i talked to the officer and asked him what was going on and he said that he didnt want her walking down the street because she was too drunk. And he didn't want to take her down town to holding because he had no reasons to detain her. I nicely informed him that he couldn't 5150 hold her for the reasons he was using, and that i would not transport her based on those reasons. He then started talking to another officer who showed up late, trying to figure out what to do with her and after 10 minutes of them trying to figure it all out I made a comment along the lines of "if you guys would be willing to take her 3 blocks to her house, we can all go back into service." He thought about it for 10 seconds and decided to take her home so we could all be done with that BS. LOL... To his defense, I think he was newer.

If my partner and i wouldn't have said something, then she would have been 5150 held for those BS reasons. I honestly think that whole system needs to change. I honestly don't feel LEO's should have the ability to 5150 a person. As it stands now LEO's, doctors, and mental services workers can 5150 a person. An LEO is not schooled in the medical field whatsoever, mental, or physical, and should not, IMO, be able to do it. They should pass that torch to EMS. If LEO has someone they think might meet the criteria, then should have to call for a medic unit, or a social worker to determine whether the person should be held on a 5150 for evaluation.

[p7m8jg]

All admissions "to public and private mental health facilities under Welfare and Institutions Code (WIG) sections 5150/5151/5152 (danger to self/danger to others (DTSO)) pursuant to WIC section 8103 (f)(2)" MUST be reported to DOJ for firearms prohibition enforcement. This is since Sept. 1999. There was a short, May 1997 to Sept. 1999 period where this was not enforced due to court order, but then after the law was changed, the AG required facilities to "go back over 5150/5151/5152 paperwork and report them retoractively.

The 1999 law also added the step of formal notification via discharge documents of the patient's now prohibition on firearms owndership for 5 years as a result of being admitted, inclluding for 5150/5151/5152, and their rights to petition for relief from this prohibition.

No matter what the Fed law is, CA DOES require reporting to the DOJ, and prohibit firearm ownership for 5 years, ANYONE admitted for 5150 evaluation. YOU have to go to court and petition for it's removal, even if it is a voluntary admission. I do not know at what point you are "legally admitted" to a facility, but I assume that once the LEO hands you and the paperwork over to the facility - usually long before the MD evaluates you, you are "admitted."

For certain, if you are given the "prohibition notice" upon discharge, you have been admitted, reported, and are ofically now "prohibited."

The temporary suspension of this for 5150/5151/5152 1997-1999 was because the court found there was not due process. The addition of the notification and avenue to petition for removal satisfied that requirement. In effect, you are still denied due process to be prohibited, but you now have "due process" to TRY to undo your being railroaded, after the fact.
Welcom to Kalifornia comrade!

+1 - nicely said.

[ALCO HK]

Dont get me started