5150 Holds. . .

[Fire in the Hole]

Im saying the paper work comes to the Hospital with the patient.
If there NOT 5150 the paper work get sealed there in a folder.
What is LCSW?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rg_1111@yahoo.com
No not exactly.
If the Doctor or Mental health worker says there NOT a 5150 the paper work stops.
It's not public information.
If they are a 5150 the paper trail goes to the Psych Facility.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rg_1111@yahoo.com
CSDGuy,
The Doctors and Mental Health workers can over ride the LEOs 5150.
The Doctor or mental health worker decide if the person is a 5150.

Actually, the 5150 is for the evaluation. You're right. They can override the 5150, but not until they see the patient first. The "damage" has been done already because the paperwork has been completed that sends the patient to an Emergency Psych Facility.

So what you're saying is that the paperwork never arrives at the facility if the Psych Doc or LCSW at the facility reviews the paperwork brought to the facility evaluates the patient and decides that they don't need to be committed...
07-04-2009 04:01 AM

There is no "Over Ride" here. This is not a trial. The paperwork does not stop. LEO's have to finish whatever they've started in any "In-Custody" situation. Leo's can't just abort a paper trail. The DR or Nurse needs to be able to read what the LEO writes on the 5150 hold form, to know what they are facing with the patient, and what angle to take. An LEO's 5150 form is considered as a "Suggestion" or "Reccomendation". LEO's usually speak with the DR or nurse briefly as well to give them further insight into the case. Again. I've never heard of a LEO's 5150 case not being affrirmed. It's really not all that hard to spot one. A true 5150 is going to be pretty obvious, and has usually behaved in such a "crazy" manner as to have a citizen call 911 to report them in the first place. When LE encounters them on the fly, an LEO can tell what he's dealing with after a few seconds. Lots of times 5150's are the elderly Altzheimer person who's wandered off from home while there spouse/care taker is in the shower of something. If this has happened before, and a neighbor, can tell the LEO, "That's old Joe, he lives about 10 houses down the street in the greeen and white house, he does this all the time." Then the LEO just drives old Joe in his underwear back home without any official paperwork.

[fairfaxjim]

All admissions "to public and private mental health facilities under Welfare and Institutions Code (WIG) sections 5150/5151/5152 (danger to self/danger to others (DTSO)) pursuant to WIC section 8103 (f)(2)" MUST be reported to DOJ for firearms prohibition enforcement. This is since Sept. 1999. There was a short, May 1997 to Sept. 1999 period where this was not enforced due to court order, but then after the law was changed, the AG required facilities to "go back over 5150/5151/5152 paperwork and report them retoractively.

The 1999 law also added the step of formal notification via discharge documents of the patient's now prohibition on firearms owndership for 5 years as a result of being admitted, inclluding for 5150/5151/5152, and their rights to petition for relief from this prohibition.

No matter what the Fed law is, CA DOES require reporting to the DOJ, and prohibit firearm ownership for 5 years, ANYONE admitted for 5150 evaluation. YOU have to go to court and petition for it's removal, even if it is a voluntary admission. I do not know at what point you are "legally admitted" to a facility, but I assume that once the LEO hands you and the paperwork over to the facility - usually long before the MD evaluates you, you are "admitted."

For certain, if you are given the "prohibition notice" upon discharge, you have been admitted, reported, and are ofically now "prohibited."

The temporary suspension of this for 5150/5151/5152 1997-1999 was because the court found there was not due process. The addition of the notification and avenue to petition for removal satisfied that requirement. In effect, you are still denied due process to be prohibited, but you now have "due process" to TRY to undo your being railroaded, after the fact.
Welcom to Kalifornia comrade!

[rg_1111@yahoo.com]

Fire in the hole,
Worng,
It's really not all that hard to spot one. A true 5150 is going to be pretty obvious, and has usually behaved in such a "crazy" manner as to have a citizen call 911 to report them in the first place.

There's a lot of different 5150s. Some are obvious some are not. Sure you have your paper work to do. At the Hospital the paper work stops in Sealed folder if there not a 5150. It would be a HIPPO violation for the hospital to make it public information.

And the Doctor and Mental health worker can over ride ANY LEO. It's your OPINION of a 5150. Your not a Doctor or a Mental Health worker and not trained in this field.
They are and can throw you 5150 paper in the trash if they see it different.
I work in an ER i see it happen alot.

[Fire in the Hole]

I can see it now. Actually I know of one specific case. ie. 5150 gets discharged from ER. Report gets destroyed. The next day (within 72 hrs.) the same 5150 commits a violent crime against a person, and gets arrested. Victim of the crime gets an attorney. Attorney files a discovery motion for the original 5150 report. Disposition of ER staff ensues. Where's the paperwork?

Attorney: "It's our intention to sue this hospital and you for incompetence for releasing a person who has an alleged history of being a 5150, and thereby facilitating a crime against my client, the victim. Dr., let's go over the 5150 hold the Officer filled out, presented to you, which you reviewed, and determined that the 5150 did not pose a threat to himself or any other person. I have some very specific questions I'd like to ask you about this case. I have proof of service that you have received my discovery notice duces tecum for all related reports." "Shall we proceed?"

Dr. along with Hospital attorney: "Umm.. can we have a moment."

[AirflowPimp]

AirflowPimp, it really does not matter whether you said all, some or even one when you made the remark about laziness. You are bashing a leo plain and simple. Your opinion that you are not is not the measure of whether it is or not. What Kestryll wrote in his sticky is and that is what is being enforced.

Do not do it anymore. Reread Kestryll's sticky about the rules for this particular forum; especially #3 and #6

Feel free to present your opinion on whom you believe should handle 5150s and why, then let the debate flow from that. Thanks for your cooperation.

You can stop talking anytime. I have read the rules and did not violate them in any way. I NEVER cop bashed (in general). I copied the rules and bolded some stuff to help you with your reading comprehension. I support officers all the time on the various forums that I post on. My brother is an LEO and I am actuallt sitting in his living room right now typing this while he looks over my shoulder laughing at the accusation of me "cop bashing". Obviously you are a very sensative person, so I guess I will give you the benefit of the doubt here and brush the cop bashing accusation off my shoulder and forgive you for falsely accusing me. I appologize for any implied "bashing" that you may have percieved. Have a good 4th and lets all stay on the same team.

1. This forum is for Calguns LEO members and those who would like to ask questions in a civil manner.

2. This forum is to give our LEO members a place to share their stories, pictures and videos as well as answer serious questions from the membership.

3. This is NOT a place to air your dislike of the Government, Law Enforcement, LEOs in general or the law in general. Doing so here will result in losing access to this forum.

4. Post denigrating or insulting our LEO members will be removed and the poster will no longer be able to access this forum.

5. Questions for LEOs should be both civil and serious. Questions like 'Why do you thugs..' will get you removed and possibly banned. Frivolous questions will be deleted.

6. 'Cop Bashing' will NOT be tolerated in this forum at all.

7. In addition to these special rules, the standard rules still apply here as well.

[SVT-40]

Very different deal in L.A. County. Medical workers, EMT's, Paramedics, firemen or whom ever, have ZERO NADA say whether a 5150WIC get committed. Unless there is some medical reason the PD usually transports the "victim" to the mental facility fills out the 5150 WIC advisement form, gives the advisement. Then away they go. If the facility later releases them after a further evaluation no big deal that's what they are there for.

If the "victim" is transported by ambulance the LEO just follows it the the mental facility. the ambulance is just a mental health taxi service. Nothing more.


In fact many medical Doctors (who by the way can make 5150 commitments) try and call the cop's to make the commitment for them. They just don't want to do the paperwork, and arrange their own transportation.

I would usually just refuse. and tell them to do their jobs.

[AirflowPimp]

Very different deal in L.A. County. Medical workers, EMT's, Paramedics, firemen or whom ever, have ZERO NADA say whether a 5150WIC get committed. Unless there is some medical reason the PD usually transports the "victim" to the mental facility fills out the 5150 WIC advisement form, gives the advisement. Then away they go. If the facility later releases them after a further evaluation no big deal that's what they are there for.

If the "victim" is transported by ambulance the LEO just follows it the the mental facility. the ambulance is just a mental health taxi service. Nothing more.


In fact many medical Doctors (who by the way can make 5150 commitments) try and call the cop's to make the commitment for them. They just don't want to do the paperwork, and arrange their own transportation.

I would usually just refuse. and tell them to do their jobs.

Yeah, definately different. In fresno county the LEO calls us to the scene priority 3 for a "behavioral emergency." The LEO finishes the paperwork, then gives us the original hand written hold and we take them to either the hospital (if there is a complaint) or the mental health facility (if there is no complaint). They NEVER tx the person. I am beginning to envy other counties on this matter...hahaha

[B.D.Dubloon]

Fire in the hole,
Worng,
It's really not all that hard to spot one. A true 5150 is going to be pretty obvious, and has usually behaved in such a "crazy" manner as to have a citizen call 911 to report them in the first place.

There's a lot of different 5150s. Some are obvious some are not. Sure you have your paper work to do. At the Hospital the paper work stops in Sealed folder if there not a 5150. It would be a HIPPO violation for the hospital to make it public information.

And the Doctor and Mental health worker can over ride ANY LEO. It's your OPINION of a 5150. Your not a Doctor or a Mental Health worker and not trained in this field.
They are and can throw you 5150 paper in the trash if they see it different.
I work in an ER i see it happen alot.

Stop calling it a HIPPO violation, all of your coworkers are laughing at you, if you do in fact work in an ER. Are you housekeeping or engineering? I only ask because I can't figure out how you wouldn't know it is HIPAA if you did work frequently in the ER. Come to think of it, even housekeeping and engineering should know about HIPAA.

[Fire in the Hole]

[QUOTE=B.D.Dubloon;2725943]Stop calling it a HIPPO violation.


I can see no good coming from violating a hippo.

[fairfaxjim]

[QUOTE=Fire in the Hole;2725982]

Stop calling it a HIPPO violation.


I can see no good coming from violating a hippo.

Don't knock it until you've - ah nevermind!

[Kestryll]

You can stop talking anytime.

Not the wisest thing to tell a Mod...

Enjoy the flowers and shrubbery during your time off...

[B.D.Dubloon]

Not the wisest thing to tell a Mod...

Enjoy the flowers and shrubbery during your time off...

Kes, don't forget to change retired's designation from senior member to mod.

[rg_1111@yahoo.com]

B.D.Dubloon,
Yes I work in an ER. Im not housekeeping or engineering.

Yes, it's a HIPPAA violation to talk about patients medical records.
It was a typo that you were not smart enough to figure out.
Have you ever worked with a 5150 patient? I don't really care because Im done with this thread.

[SVT-40]

One other thing you non LEO types might not know. After you commit the person on a 5150 WIC hold you give the treatment facility one copy of the commitment form. You then take another copy and attach it to your police report.

Our agency titled all 5150 WIC holds as "alleged mentally I'll" reports PER 5150WIC

You then wrote a report detailing the circumstances of the commitment. The report was a much more detailed story of the entire contact with the "victim" as they were called in the report. The original 5150 WIC for was then attached to the report .

Once the report passed through the records system a secretary would make the necessary entrys into the CLETS and NCIC computer systems. regarding the firearms prohibition.

Even if a mental health facility later released the "victim" the information was still documented and the entrys made. As the "victim" had still originally been committed.

[B.D.Dubloon]

B.D.Dubloon,
Yes I work in an ER. Im not housekeeping or engineering.

Yes, it's a HIPPAA violation to talk about patients medical records.
It was a typo that you were not smart enough to figure out.
Have you ever worked with a 5150 patient? I don't really care because Im done with this thread.

Wrong again, it is not a "HIPPAA," it is a HIPAA violation. That may be a typo (I doubt it though).

It wasn't a typo. A typo is where you hit the wrong key instead of the one you intended. (for example, if you had typed JIPAA [accidentally hitting the J when you meant to hit H]) You typed HIPPO because you thought that was what HIPPA (this here would also be a typo, double tapping the P instead of the A) was. Your calling it HIPPO was not a typo, it was ignorance. No sweat of my back, I was just trying to help, give you a head's up so that you aren't making dumb mistakes at work.


In response to your last question, yes read some of my posts in this thread, I am a security guard in a BHU (which you may not know is where they put 5150s).