Pensioned LEOs and Social Security

[AdiosKali]

For some, the harshest thing they had at work was a paper cut or burnt coffee.

[71MUSTY]

For some, the harshest thing they had at work was a paper cut or burnt coffee.

Now now, I'm not saying most don't work hard or that they don't deserve the great deal they have (It was created to make up for the fact they got paid less then the private sector, it did that, then they got pay raises, then Politicians desimated the private sector), just that they need to know it is a better deal then almost anyone in the private sector and that they should not get greedy and want our deal too.

[scadvice]

I was self employed for more than half of my working career which means I payed in to SS twice what people do who work for someone else (your employer pays a matching amount for those who don't know). Since I payed twice as much as others payed at the same income rate during that period shouldn't I get credits twice as fast?? No...it doesn't work that way. Read up on where that other 6.2 or so percent supposedly goes.

Should you who have payed the full credit rate of 6.2% (half what I payed for half my working life) get full retirement rate and a government pension? I'm not so sure because isn't that a form of double dipping as its supposedly all coming from the same source?

Maybe the another way to see it is to look at the amounts you contributed in SS payment and the benefit credit amount you get via your salary paid to you, what you get for retirement, by your government employer and where funding for that comes from?

I will grant you I think the formula used to give "your fair share" is questionable though. Why not a reduced % and credit of the SS while you are working? Not the reduced amount later which you paid the full 6.2% before? Seems like a con to me that would not fly with any employer other than the government.

Just asking here... you tell me...should I get more SS benefit in retirement and have gotten my 40 credits sooner? Sounds like what some are asking for here...

[BadKitty]

Yours is a good question, what was your job description the first 7 years? Actually you don't need to answer that, wouldn't help me answer your question anyway. Sounds like you did get a raw deal. Except do you get to count the 8 years towards your PERS? If so that would make sense.

The first 7 years of my working life were in various civilian jobs. The first 8 years of my government life were as a desk worker in the education sector. Those 8 years as a state government civilian worker did count towards CalPERS, yes. The pension formula there was nothing to brag about, but it was a govt pension. I could understand if the feds want to say that anyone with a govt pension can't have social security. If so, then social security should not deducted for anyone with a govt pension. But, in my case, they took deductions for BOTH my PERS and social security and are now telling me that I won't get to have my full amount back.

Why? Because I switched to a job in public safety in order to better support myself and my family? Cool....don't let me have social security. Can I have the original 15 years worth of social security I paid in back?

In other words, let's say I had started out Day 1 in public safety and had never had any social security deducted from my check. I work 35 years as a cop and retire with my pension. No social security for me. Ok, that's fair. But, what if I had spent the first 15 years of my working life as a civil engineer and paid into social security all that time. Then, I decided to go for my dream job as a firefighter and did that for 20 years. My first 15 years of social security payments go out the window and I get a paltry percentage back?

Should you who have payed the full credit rate of 6.2% (half what I payed for half my working life) get full retirement rate and a government pension? I'm not so sure because isn't that a form of double dipping as its supposedly all coming from the same source?

Is it coming from the same source? My pension would come from the State of California (CalPERS). I thought that Social Security comes from the federal government. Did I misunderstand that?


I think there may be a misunderstanding here. The people with the public safety pensions (we're in the LEO forum) didn't pay 30-years into social security and 30-years into govt pension and are trying to double dip both. My understanding is that many/most public safety pensions have the provision that they are non-social security paying roles. If I'm understanding some of the posters correctly, they worked for a significant number of years in the private sector and paid into social security *prior* to being a govt worker.

So, for example, it would be 10 years private sector/social security + 20 years govt pension. In that scenario, they aren't asking for a full disbursement of social security benefits calculated as if they had been paying in for 30-years. They're only asking for a disbursement on the "pro-rated" 10-year portion of their working life.

I am genuinely trying to understand everyone else's viewpoints here and am trying to explain why it seems awkward from my end.

[CBR_rider]

I think there may be a misunderstanding here. The people with the public safety pensions (we're in the LEO forum) didn't pay 30-years into social security and 30-years into govt pension and are trying to double dip both. My understanding is that many/most public safety pensions have the provision that they are non-social security paying roles. If I'm understanding some of the posters correctly, they worked for a significant number of years in the private sector and paid into social security *prior* to being a govt worker.

So, for example, it would be 10 years private sector/social security + 20 years govt pension. In that scenario, they aren't asking for a full disbursement of social security benefits calculated as if they had been paying in for 30-years. They're only asking for a disbursement on the "pro-rated" 10-year portion of their working life....

I think that's what some of the folks unhappy with their social security situation are saying... because really if its anything else I don't think they have a bone to pick.

I have several years of pay that I contributed to social security that I have just written off; I think it would be awesome if I could get my contributions back and re-invest them in an IRA. Since I unfortunately live in Reality, CA I figure it was my "donation" to all the old people on social security benefits right now.

[gwanghoops]

So, for example, it would be 10 years private sector/social security + 20 years govt pension. In that scenario, they aren't asking for a full disbursement of social security benefits calculated as if they had been paying in for 30-years. They're only asking for a disbursement on the "pro-rated" 10-year portion of their working life.

I am genuinely trying to understand everyone else's viewpoints here and am trying to explain why it seems awkward from my end.

WEP/GPO has been around since the 80s. This should not be financial news to those near retirement age.

AFAIK, there's been several bills to both eliminate WEP (with something worse) and to calculate it pro-rated against total lifetime earnings.

Personally, it should be pro-rated instead needing 20 years of SS earnings, but in recent years, anytime SS is altered, it's rarely for our benefit.

[omgwtfbbq]

Forgive me for my ignorance but I'm trying to wrap my head around this. I'm an LEO and I pay full SS out of my checks. I'm a ways off from being about to collect it, and who knows if SS will even be around then, but am I understanding it correctly that if/when I draw my SS, they're going to reduce my benefits by 2/3 of my pensioned income? Essentially for no reason?

[Spanky8601]

Forgive me for my ignorance but I'm trying to wrap my head around this. I'm an LEO and I pay full SS out of my checks. I'm a ways off from being about to collect it, and who knows if SS will even be around then, but am I understanding it correctly that if/when I draw my SS, they're going to reduce my benefits by 2/3 of my pensioned income? Essentially for no reason?

Yes. If you are a Fed LEO there are some slightly different provisions. Look up WEP on the SS web page.

[tnlrat37]

Look here, Https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/wep-chart.html

There's an online calculator to figure it out exactly, if you pay in more than 30 years you get it all

[Timbob55]

Generally, there is no reduction of Social Security benefits because of your military retirement benefits. You'll get your full Social Security benefit based on your earnings. While you're in military service, you pay Social Security taxes, just as civilian employees do.




Military Service and Social Security

https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10017.pdf

[Midnightblue 72]

I know I wont get any Social Security(SS) when I retire. Almost my entire adult life, I have worked for my department here in So Cal. Our MOU was written in a way, that allowed us not to pay SS tax with the exception of Medicare.

I have 31 years with Calpers paid over $250,000 into my account during that time and dont expect nor will I receive anything from SS. I did work at Target and was an Army Reservist for 9 years and paid in but like I said, I dont expect squat.

I am blessed that I can retire as of July of this year, I have been to the funeral of many friends and am lucky to be able to leave when I am.

[oddjob]

I know of only one retired officer who gets his CalPers retirement and FULL Social Security (SS). He had the 30 years of SS quarters. So you can get the full amount.

[gwanghoops]

Forgive me for my ignorance but I'm trying to wrap my head around this. I'm an LEO and I pay full SS out of my checks. I'm a ways off from being about to collect it, and who knows if SS will even be around then, but am I understanding it correctly that if/when I draw my SS, they're going to reduce my benefits by 2/3 of my pensioned income? Essentially for no reason?

For 2016, SS WEP worst case hit is $428/mo (if "supposed" to get $856/mo or more from SS).

(I'm not an accountant, just someone who's planning on retiring soon and this affects me).

[omgwtfbbq]

For 2016, SS WEP worst case hit is $428/mo (if "supposed" to get $856/mo or more from SS).

(I'm not an accountant, just someone who's planning on retiring soon and this affects me).

Hmm. Well I still have 21 years til retirement plus another 15 if I want full SS after that, so I guess I have time to see how this shakes out.

[71MUSTY]

Forgive me for my ignorance but I'm trying to wrap my head around this. I'm an LEO and I pay full SS out of my checks. I'm a ways off from being about to collect it, and who knows if SS will even be around then, but am I understanding it correctly that if/when I draw my SS, they're going to reduce my benefits by 2/3 of my pensioned income? Essentially for no reason?

Are you covered by a government pension? It is not punishment for being a LEO, It is an adjustment for people who spent the majority of their career exempt from Social Security. If you are paying Social Security on your checks You are not exempt and should not be dinged. The conversation today is about people who are exempt from paying Social Security on their Government Job but maybe paid some in on a side job or a previous job are upset because they don't get the same payout as someone like you who paid in the full time. All the money they were not paying for Social Security went into their pension. Think how much better your pension would be if the money you pay for Social Security Tax instead went into your pension like it does for them.

But they insist the system is unfair to them. Maybe it is, but it seems more unfair to you.