Pensioned LEOs and Social Security

[Frank1911]

Now I think you have Alzheimer's. You my want to read what you wrote . You also *** ume everything. I never complained about what any reduced payment? I'm not retired nor am I currently eligible for any retirement. I already shared with you I'm a business owner and if you only paid 15% you either have a great CPA or business isn't going that we'll for you.

I still have a few more years till retirement (if I decide to sell or hand down my business) but nevertheless I'm not collecting a dime of my SS that I surely will apply for (Because I can). BTW, just about everything comes from our tax dollars.

Just because you're a government employee does not mean you are exempt from paying into SS, and taxes that would be an ignorant statement ( And it was).

I can not speak on any "Lucrative defined pension" but what I do know out of many of my friends that were/are government employees, none of them live high on the hog. They live moderately as most Americans do.

I believe the men & women who agreed to serve their community, from our military to our Waste collection should be treated fairly.

You *** ume too much and most of your rant is without facts. I'm beginning to think you look forward to my response just so you can see the tag line.....

Make America Great Again! "MAGA."

Please respond back with anything if you believe in Making America Great Again. (-;





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[71MUSTY]

Now I think you have Alzheimer's. You my want to read what you wrote . You also *** ume everything. I never complained about what any reduced payment? I'm not retired nor am I currently eligible for any retirement. I already shared with you I'm a business owner and if you only paid 15% you either have a great CPA or business isn't going that we'll for you.

I still have a few more years till retirement (if I decide to sell or hand down my business) but nevertheless I'm not collecting a dime of my SS that I surely will apply for (Because I can). BTW, just about everything comes from our tax dollars.

Just because you're a government employee does not mean you are exempt from paying into SS, and taxes that would be an ignorant statement ( And it was).

I can not speak on any "Lucrative defined pension" but what I do know out of many of my friends that were/are government employees, none of them live high on the hog. They live moderately as most Americans do.

I believe the men & women who agreed to serve their community, from our military to our Waste collection should be treated fairly.

You *** ume too much and most of your rant is without facts. I'm beginning to think you look forward to my response just so you can see the tag line.....

Make America Great Again! "MAGA."

Please respond back with anything if you believe in Making America Great Again. (-;





Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

So you are not a government employee you just chose to come one here and call me a Hillary supporter and suggest I cooked my books because why??? I didn't realize your attack on me was totally irrelevant I apologize.
We are discussing Government Employees and double dipping here.

Lets talk about their fair share.

My sister paid int SS her whole life. Died at 60 gets zero. Is that FAIR? It not about fair it is about how the system is designed to work.

Legislators decided years ago that someone who got to exempt themselves from Social Security and instead invest the money they would have paid into Social Security to fund a Government backed Defined Benefit Program Program could not double dip.

That is the law and it sounds reasonable to me.

This thread is about people complaining that their being able to put their earnings into a Government Protected Defined Benefit Pension instead of paying into Social Security causes Social Security to limit the amount of Social Security they can receive is unfair.

My point was/is that it is not really unfair they just think it is.

Nobody else can elect out of Social Security and instead contribute into a Government Protected Defined Benefit Pension.

If we could I would agree life is fair. You are attacking me, but were you able to take the money you should have paid in social security taxes and pay them instead into your 401 K? No you were not.

Now if you can stop your name calling we can discuss MAGA too. Altho we should start another thread and then we will likely be in violation of forum rules.

I'll start by saying the whole Social Security Insurance Scheme is a corrupt socialist government overreach which should be repealed.

People who never worked should not be able to collect. Drug addiction should not qualify people for Medicaid/SSD.

See I did all that without ever one calling you names, accusing you of cooking your books, or suggesting you supported Hillary.

And dude you should talk to your CPA because the SE tax IS 15.3%. But we pay that on top of all the other taxes. My actual tax rate is Greater then 50%. But I am an EA so it is understandable you would assume a CPA knows more about taxes then I do.

[johnthomas]

First of all. If you are CALPERS, you and your employer does not pay into SS like regular jobs do. That money goes into your retirement system. Unlike SS, you can draw retirement much earlier than if it were paid into SS. Having said that, if you go out and get another job that requires you and your employer to pay SS you don't get it all when your reach SS retirement. I am with you on this. Below is from the website I have posted, please read it and go to the website, good information.
Government Pension Offset
A second provision, the Government Pension Offset (GPO) has also been misapplied to some CSEA members. This provision affects a portion of Social Security benefits that you might be entitled to on your spouse’s, or ex-spouse’s Social Security record.

For example, Jane Doe is a retired classified employee. She and her husband (of at least 10 years) are both receiving Social Security checks. Jane may be entitled to a portion of her husband’s check while he is still living or upon his death, but because she receives a CalPERS pension, she may also be mistakenly subjected to a reduction.

If Social Security sees a retiree like Jane receiving a CalPERS pension, it may apply the GPO to the portion of her spouse’s amount that she should receive. If this happens, her Social Security check would be reduced by two-thirds of the amount she receives from CalPERS. It can add up to a loss of thousands or tens of thousands of dollars over the years.

http://www.csea.com/web/Benefits/Retirement/Social-Security-and-Your-CalPERS-Pension

[71MUSTY]

http://www.csea.com/web/Benefits/Ret...alPERS-Pension

Agreed, except it is not a loss. She is going to receive exactly the amount she is entitled too. The fact it is several thousand dollars less then she would have receive if she did not have a government pension is irrelevant.

[Frank1911]

So you are not a government employee you just chose to come one here and call me a Hillary supporter and suggest I cooked my books because why??? I didn't realize your attack on me was totally irrelevant I apologize.
We are discussing Government Employees and double dipping here.

Lets talk about their fair share.

My sister paid int SS her whole life. Died at 60 gets zero. Is that FAIR? It not about fair it is about how the system is designed to work.

Legislators decided years ago that someone who got to exempt themselves from Social Security and instead invest the money they would have paid into Social Security to fund a Government backed Defined Benefit Program Program could not double dip.

That is the law and it sounds reasonable to me.

This thread is about people complaining that their being able to put their earnings into a Government Protected Defined Benefit Pension instead of paying into Social Security causes Social Security to limit the amount of Social Security they can receive is unfair.

My point was/is that it is not really unfair they just think it is.

Nobody else can elect out of Social Security and instead contribute into a Government Protected Defined Benefit Pension.

If we could I would agree life is fair. You are attacking me, but were you able to take the money you should have paid in social security taxes and pay them instead into your 401 K? No you were not.

Now if you can stop your name calling we can discuss MAGA too. Altho we should start another thread and then we will likely be in violation of forum rules.

I'll start by saying the whole Social Security Insurance Scheme is a corrupt socialist government overreach which should be repealed.

People who never worked should not be able to collect. Drug addiction should not qualify people for Medicaid/SSD.

See I did all that without ever one calling you names, accusing you of cooking your books, or suggesting you supported Hillary.

And dude you should talk to your CPA because the SE tax IS 15.3%. But we pay that on top of all the other taxes. My actual tax rate is Greater then 50%. But I am an EA so it is understandable you would assume a CPA knows more about taxes then I do.

Well, I'm sorry to hear your sister passed at such a young age. As far as her collecting when she's deceased that doesn't make any sense (fairness has nothing to do with it). We don't tax the deceased (Wait a minute I forgot about the inheritance tax) oh yeah, that's for the living. If she had children under 18 or a spouse then absolutely they should get her retirement money. That's fair.

I don't have to personally or directly be affected to take sides on an issue. As far as taxes are concerned now I see you do pay your fair share if what you're saying is correct.

I don't believe I was name-calling although there was some implying on both sides. Is being a Hillary supporter really a bad thing?

At the end of the day, we probably agree on more than we disagree. I also don't want to violate any rules or start another thread so on this issue I can agree to disagree.



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[M1NM]

False, when you went to work for the Government you elected out of Social Security.

Social Security is not intended to give back what we put in, it is intended as a safety net for other less fortunate people.

just like my tax dollars funded your pension.

The law that reduces my SS payout went into effect after I was out of SS. When I left I was entitled to 100% of my earned payments. Is it fair that it's retroactive? No.

You better go back and read what SS was originally charged to do - be a forced savings account to save you money to have in your old age. The gov has since bastardized it and when JFK put the SS trust into the general fund he bankrupted it forever. Being a safety net for the unfortunate is purely a liberal/entitlement arguement.

ZERO of your tax dollars go into my pension. I work for an independent section of a city that produces it's own revenue from sales of utilities - which by the way are sold at a cheaper rate than other SoCal utilities. Our Department also kicks over $70 million a year into the city coffers which is income they don't have to generate by increasing your fees and taxes.

[71MUSTY]

The law that reduces my SS payout went into effect after I was out of SS. When I left I was entitled to 100% of my earned payments. Is it fair that it's retroactive? No.

You better go back and read what SS was originally charged to do - be a forced savings account to save you money to have in your old age. The gov has since bastardized it and when JFK put the SS trust into the general fund he bankrupted it forever. Being a safety net for the unfortunate is purely a liberal/entitlement arguement.

ZERO of your tax dollars go into my pension. I work for an independent section of a city that produces it's own revenue from sales of utilities - which by the way are sold at a cheaper rate than other SoCal utilities. Our Department also kicks over $70 million a year into the city coffers which is income they don't have to generate by increasing your fees and taxes.

No what changed your benefit was your going to work for the government and electing out of Social Security. The law was passed while you were exempted out of Social Security. Now you are applying to collect Social Security and must comply with current laws.

When I started paying into Social Security the Benefits were not taxable. By your logic should I get my SS tax free?

[SWalt]

I wonder what those who are just starting out think about the f***ed up deal they will get. 20 trillion in current debt, close to 100 trillion in future obligations (false promises) today. Watching public "servants" b**** and moan about the bad deal they are getting while most of them will have to funded their own retirements from their own pay checks must be frosting their a**es.

[Che762x39]

I've ranted here in the past about losing two thirds of my Social Security benefits due a clause called "Government Pension Offset and Windfall Elimination" provision ...

OP, thanks for the heads up.

[micro911]

You have completely missed the point. It's not about getting the same as you but getting back what was put in? I don't want the same as people who paid in for their entire working career, but I should be allowed to get the benefit's of what I paid in.

Many of us paid into social security just like you did, and some of us are still paying in, but because we have a separate government pension system we should not be allowed to get the full benefit we paid into?

It's about fairness since private sector pension holder's still qualify for full social security benefit's why shouldn't government pensions? If someone paid into the system shouldn't they be allowed the benefit's for the time they paid in? I guess if social security was reduced for IRA or 401k holder's it would be a different matter entirely.

I just want to get what I was entitled. Not at the reduced rate because I have another pension. I put in so much, and I want to get what I was supposed to get whether I get another pension or not.

[BadKitty]

I am honestly confused, though. For 8 years as a State employee, I paid into both a CalPERS retirement and Social Security. See the above image from one of my pay warrants. You can probably tell from the low tax amounts that, contrary to common belief, I wasn't exactly living large on a "fat cat government job".

When I switched to a career in public safety, social security ceased to be taken from my checks. But, apparently, I don't get the full amount of the 15 or so years (7 private industry, 8 govt) I payed in before I went into public safety. If nothing else, it seems weird to me that I was forced to pay into both govt retirement AND social security for those 8 years, but I can't have the full social security amount.

[P5Ret]

No I didn't. I pay way more in then you ever did. I still pay in even though I can now collect and no matter how much more I pay in I will never get a dime of that back. Meanwhile your union exempted 80%+ of your income from SS tax by being a Govt Employee.

Your Union made a deal, Give us a really great pension and we will exempt out of Social Security. Can't have it both ways. That's why they call it DOUBLE DIPPING.

You think because you payed in 40 quarters you should get back the same amount as someone who payed in 200 quarters.

And more important it is called Social Security Insurance for a reason. It is not a pension it is an insurance policy. Most of the money I payed in goes to support some millennial who fried his brains on Norco and Extacy.

Yeah you did, and your just too arrogant to admit it. You paid way more than I ever did, you know this how? You don't know me or my work history, but you can assume you paid more than I have. Granted you probably have paid more into social security than I have, and still am by the way. Since I paid social security for 10+ years before I got a job in LE, and for 12 years after, plus the 9% I paid CalPers toward my own retirement plus an additional voluntary 3% I don't really see that much of difference. Yeah I paid nothing for 14 years, but no union got me that it was congress that did that, to benefit themselves no doubt.

I just think that I and other's in the same situation should get the full amount based upon our credit in the system. I don't have a 6 figure pension or paid medical, and I don't know too many people that do. So yeah when I get to that age, the extra will probably help, but I got a few more years before that happens and who knows what may transpire between now and then.

[Country_Jim]

So much jealousy in this thread.

[71MUSTY]

I just want to get what I was entitled. Not at the reduced rate because I have another pension. I put in so much, and I want to get what I was supposed to get whether I get another pension or not.

You are getting what you are entitled to. What you are not getting is what a person without a government pension is entitled to.

Yeah you did, and your just too arrogant to admit it. You paid way more than I ever did, you know this how? You don't know me or my work history, but you can assume you paid more than I have. Granted you probably have paid more into social security than I have, and still am by the way. Since I paid social security for 10+ years before I got a job in LE, and for 12 years after, plus the 9% I paid CalPers toward my own retirement plus an additional voluntary 3% I don't really see that much of difference. Yeah I paid nothing for 14 years, but no union got me that it was congress that did that, to benefit themselves no doubt.

I just think that I and other's in the same situation should get the full amount based upon our credit in the system. I don't have a 6 figure pension or paid medical, and I don't know too many people that do. So yeah when I get to that age, the extra will probably help, but I got a few more years before that happens and who knows what may transpire between now and then.

Simple math. For your entire government career you did not pay into Social Security of 12 years you paid nothing into Social Security. For those 12 years plus 36 more I paid into Social Security. I don't need to see your paystubs to do that math. For those 12 years while I was paying into Social Security you were paying into a better Defined Benefit Plan.

You do understand the Union's funded the politicians to pass that law?

You have a pension they will pay you a defined benefit of something like (Years worked X 2)% of your highest years earnings. You do realize that is worth more then 6 figures and it's guaranteed.

Actually it's the best retirement plan in the country and the private sector stopped offering them 20 years ago because they were so expensive.

In the meantime the rest of us have to pay into Social Security and then scrape up money to fund our own retirement and have no guarantee what so ever.


You get a better deal, because you get a better deal the law says you get a reduced amount from Social Security. Now you want the better deal AND the same deal as the rest of us.

Unless you think somehow laws should not apply to you because you are special. You want to collect full Social Security just give up your Special Deal.

But I am tired of hearing "BooBooHoo I have this awesome retirement but I want to get what the po folk get too, life is so unfair."

If you actually read this and understand how it works you might get an idea of why people don't like Government Employees.

You remind me of the State Employee who was complaining because she had to take one fur low day a month.

I asked her. "So you get an extra day off each month?"

She said "Yes but I don't get paid for it."


Hello, I never get paid for days off.

Then I pointed out to her that even with 12 extra days off a year she made $20,000. More then the day before.

You have a great deal. Stop whining.

What's more is SSI is a fail safe to support old people who do not have pensions. Just because you pay into it does not guarantee you anything.

You pay 9% +3% into CALPERS for your own guaranteed pension. I pay 15.3 % into Social Security to support some drugged out Millennial. Once you understand the difference we can talk.

[71MUSTY]

I am honestly confused, though. For 8 years as a State employee, I paid into both a CalPERS retirement and Social Security. See the above image from one of my pay warrants. You can probably tell from the low tax amounts that, contrary to common belief, I wasn't exactly living large on a "fat cat government job".

When I switched to a career in public safety, social security ceased to be taken from my checks. But, apparently, I don't get the full amount of the 15 or so years (7 private industry, 8 govt) I payed in before I went into public safety. If nothing else, it seems weird to me that I was forced to pay into both govt retirement AND social security for those 8 years, but I can't have the full social security amount.

Yours is a good question, what was your job description the first 7 years? Actually you don't need to answer that, wouldn't help me answer your question anyway. Sounds like you did get a raw deal. Except do you get to count the 8 years towards your PERS? If so that would make sense.