Pensioned LEOs and Social Security

[kfraiz007]

Your PERS (Public Employee Retirement System) pension benefits are FAR better than those receiving SSI (Social Security)... You've invested (one of) your career(s) in one of the few EXEMPT (or nearly exempt) jobs. You KNEW this, and are reminded annually (at minimum) during open enrollment.

Normal folks can't do this. Your SSI is being reduced because you EXCEED their maximum income levels. It's the same across the board for others. Like those who take a job in excess of the earned income limits.

PERS works... and works well. SSI is administered to the American public by exempted PERS employees... and it's failing. Social Security has been stolen from, and made insolvent by those who promised SSI to the American taxpayer, then FORCED us to participate. Summarily, they exempted themselves, while causing SSI to crumble by mismanagement... yet they created themselves a system (PERS) that works, but it's only for them.

Ruling class (PERS) vs. the Little People (SSI). Now you want an exemption from longstanding SSI reductions to further force the insolvency of the public system, so you can have more?

No wonder the democrats overwhelmingly support this nonsense! When you signed your PERS contact, it was there in black and white, and so where you. YOU EXEMPTED YOURSELF !

You knew better, or should have known better... either way, it's against the law for a reason. Your asking to blatantly double dip... after you've been TOLD FOR YEARS! I'm only an insurance agent, and I know that PERS makes you SSI exempt! I served PERS employees. They all knew... what happened to you? I think you're playing dumb. Needless to say, anyone who supports this idea, is.

Your PERS pension is likely 3x more than a guy earning the same wage via SSI... and you STILL want more?

Greed is ugly!

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[TrailerparkTrash]

Your PERS (Public Employee Retirement System) pension benefits are FAR better than those receiving SSI (Social Security)... You've invested (one of) your career(s) in one of the few EXEMPT (or nearly exempt) jobs. You KNEW this, and are reminded annually (at minimum) during open enrollment.

But...but...but.... I'm NOT a member of PERS.
I've NEVER been a part of CalPERS.
I will never collect one dime from PERS because again, I'm NOT enrolled with that entity.

Now what?

Care to ASSume anything else that is not part of the facts of this discussion, son?

I actually belong to one of the very rare government retirement systems that actually requires the employee to contribute a large percentage to our own retirements (unlike PERS), similar but not exactly like a civilian 401k. Wow, imagine that

Again reiterating, I also happily chose to work TWO jobs for a time period where I contributed the full amount as prescribed by law into Social Security. How is that "greed" in your mind? It's called "working harder" to strive for better, here in America. If I'm contributing to SS, shouldn't I receive my "entitled" benefits as well? You're contributing to SS, don't you want your benefits that you've put into it? Why do you get yours and others don't?

Which one did you support that lost the election, Hillary or Bernie? We're not completely a socialist nation yet.

Your PERS pension is likely 3x more than a guy earning the same wage via SSI... and you STILL want more?

Greed is ugly!

I'd say that your Ignorance is even uglier because you don't know all of the facts. ("PERS.". Ha!).

Neeeext!

[kfraiz007]

That it's not PERS is immaterial. You KNEW you'd receive reduced SSI, or SHOULD have known. Everyone eligible for SSI receives a reduced benefit when income allowance is exceeded.

SSI is a failsafe, never intended to be a replacement for savings or pension or 401K... etc. It has parameters. Paying in is required in most circumstances, their payout isn't.

I pay into that system, and I'll likely never receive ANY benefit from it. It's insolvent. If SSI was a privately held insurance company, it'd be shuttered by government for failing to cover it's projected loss ratio... and those in control would be convicted for embezzlement, waste, fraud and abuse. Government promises are BUNK. Particularly THIS one.

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[71MUSTY]

But...but...but.... I'm NOT a member of PERS.
I've NEVER been a part of CalPERS.
I will never collect one dime from PERS because again, I'm NOT enrolled with that entity.

Now what?

Care to ASSume anything else that is not part of the facts of this discussion, son?

I actually belong to one of the very rare government retirement systems that actually requires the employee to contribute a large percentage Of Social Security Exempt money to our own retirements (unlike PERS), similar but not exactly like a civilian 401k. Wow, imagine that

Again reiterating, I also happily chose to work TWO jobs for a time period where I contributed the full amount as prescribed by law into Social Security. How is that "greed" in your mind? It's called "working harder" to strive for better, here in America. If I'm contributing to SS, shouldn't I receive my "entitled" benefits as well? You're contributing to SS, don't you want your benefits that you've put into it? Why do you get yours and others don't?

Which one did you support that lost the election, Hillary or Bernie? We're not completely a socialist nation yet.


I'd say that your Ignorance is even uglier because you don't know all of the facts. ("PERS.". Ha!).

Neeeext!

You really don't understand any of this do you. The Greed comes in when you want all the benefits of your plan, but want to ignore the costs imposed by law upon your because you greedily want even more money.

It doesn't matter which EXEMPT GOVERNMENT PLAN YOU belong too.

I actually belong to one of the very rare government retirement systems that actually requires the employee to contribute a large percentage to our own retirements

Which means you got to build your retirement with even more SS tax EXEMPT dollars then your PERS Friends here. You got an even better deal then they did.

I doesn't matter which EXEMPT GOVERNMENT PLAN YOU belong too.

But feel free to continue posting your ignorance. We won't laugh.







.

[solipsism]

I for one am very happy to I don't have to pay into SS anymore. I don't even care if I never see the money I paid into it at previous jobs.

[TrailerparkTrash]

You really don't understand any of this do you. The Greed comes in when you want all the benefits of your plan, but want to ignore the costs imposed by law upon your because you greedily want even more money.

It doesn't matter which EXEMPT GOVERNMENT PLAN YOU belong to!

My government retirement plan and my SS contributions are two seperate and independent issues. If as you say I have "nothing coming" when it comes to SS returns (a whopping 40 quarters worth in my case) because I already have a seperate retirement plan, I'd agree with you IF..... SS reimburses me for what I've already contributed. It's like I was "taxed for nothing." So give me a refund for all those years into SS and you won't hear from me again.

Do you have a 401K, a Roth IRA or regular IRA? If you did, you'd know that you also contribute a percentage of your money to those funds with pre-tax dollars (just like I do). So if that's the case, how about I claim that since you too are taking advantage of a "quasi tax break," then you shouldn't receive any SS benefits either. After all, you already have a retirement plan, right? Hey there's an idea! Oh here's another reminder to you: your plan takes advantage of tax "loop-holes" too!

Again, I contributed to SS for a time period in my life and later switched careers. I should get whatever percentage I'm allowed to receive based on what I contributed that's equal to my fellow tax payers' who contributed the same amount. I'm not suggesting any "more" than what I've contributed and what the law says I'd be allotted as the next tax payer is allowed. Evidentaly some politicians think this way now too.

What you're suggesting is that the government takes my tax money I contributed into SS and keeps it, yet they take your tax money and you get a small (SS) return upon reaching a specific age. That doesn't make sense. Had I NOT reached my 40 quarters, then yeah I shouldn't be entitled to anything from SS. The fact is however, I like you paid into the system. Naturally you should get more from SS than I because you paid more into it.

Either way I know this fact: You're triggered with anger because you don't have what I have regarding retirement. Can't help you there. Second, no matter how much you can't stand it, the fact is I'll still receive something from SS. Third, as discussed earlier, there's already a move in Washington to change all this and give those of us that rightfully contributed whatever dollar amount, the benefit that's commensurate to the same return as the next guy that contributed the same respective amount.

So really, your belly aching doesn't do much for you. Again, if you're so jealous of a civil servants's retirement plan (again, being sperate from SS), we're always hiring.

[gwanghoops]

Getting what you "deserve" from paying into social security outside of any other income is the opposite of what many believe is the intent of social security (right or wrong) -- helping supplement the retirement income of lower lifetime wage earners. Basically, WEP is the government's answer to those with pensions + SS aren't considered lower lifetime wage earners.

That's why there's talk of "fixing" social security by putting in means-testing and replacing WEP with something that counts ALL of your income -- both which may hurt those with pensions.

Just be happy your social security benefit can only be dropped by a maximum of $428/mo because it could get a lot worse for those with pensions or other retirement income.

[71MUSTY]

My government retirement plan and my SS contributions are two seperate and independent issues.

That is where you are 100% wrong. SORRY They became combined the minute you signed on to be Social Security EXEMPT.

By your own words that is the PLAN you chose. Now after reaping all the benefits of being able to fund a great Defined Benefit Pension with SS Exempt Dollars suddenly you want to change the rules.

Many of us take pride in honoring the deals we make. I guess you feel it's OK for you to make a deal, reap the benefits, then try to get out of the deal you made.

We all pay SS taxes for nothing. None of us who worked a full career gets back what we paid in. Quit the false argument. To receive back every $$$ I paid into SS I would have to live past 100.

Do you have a 401K, a Roth IRA or regular IRA? If you did, you'd know that you also contribute a percentage of your money to those funds with pre-tax dollars (just like I do).

Wrong again. You pay with pre tax and SS Exempt dollars. We pay with Pre tax post SS tax dollars. Read that again, this is the crux of the matter.

All your arguments about 40 quarters are wrong and a waste of bandwidth, because you cut a special deal in exchange for being allowed to fund your pension with SS Exempt dollars.

If you want the same deal as me add up every dollar you paid into your EXEMPT pension, calculate the SS tax you would have paid on it and send that to the government.

Then we would have an equal basis in SS

You made the deal, and reaped the benefits, be a man and quit crying about
it.

AGAIN it is not my fault you don't understand the deal you made. All I'm asking you to do is understand the facts of the deal you made.


Attempting to transfer your anger and confusion to me by saying I'm triggered and jealous is not helping your case. What are we 13? Why not discuss this like an adult?

Oh yeah, I forgot, when you can't support your argument with fact, switch to name calling.

Again you are making all public employees look bad, please get the facts.

[TrailerparkTrash]

suddenly you want to change the rules.

Not my idea, but some of your elected officials want to.

We all pay SS taxes for nothing. None of us who worked a full career gets back what we paid in. Quit the false argument. To receive back every $$$ I paid into SS I would have to live past 100.

"Pay SS taxes for nothing?" Ummm, you do get something back when you're in your 60's. What, you didn't know that???

Of course you don't get back 100% of what you paid into silly. You only get a PORTION of what you paid into the system, commensurate with the years that you worked. What, did you actually think that I want "100%" of what I put into it??? Whadya new?

Wrong again. You pay with pre tax and SS Exempt dollars. We pay with Pre tax post SS tax dollars. Read that again, this is the crux of the matter.

Ummm, I underlined the "crux" of the matter of what you said. I already told you that you pay with "pre-tax dollars." So I was in fact correct as you pointed out with your underlined statement. Your "post tax" stuff doesn't concern me, nor is it germane to this conversation. Either way, you should continue to pay into SS because you will earn more in the long run. I paid with the same pre and post tax dollars that you did at one time, so why don't I get my small return of what I already put into it? Nothing more, nothing less.

Your confusion is that you are incorrectly lumping two independent careers with different SS tax laws into one melting pot.

Whereas the beginning of my working years I paid into SS. It wasn't until later in life that I switched and my SS taxes came to a halt. At that point, everything I paid into it should allow me to collect a small percentage of my paid "fair share." At no point should I get one additional dime from the system after I left it. Again, I've never made that claim, however you seem to have created that myth in your own mind.

All your arguments about 40 quarters are wrong and a waste of bandwidth, because you cut a special deal in exchange for being allowed to fund your pension with SS Exempt dollars

"Special deal"??? No it's just a market of one's money. You get only a portion of what you put into SS, that's understood. Had I left the system to be a homeless person for the next 40 years, I'd still receive benefits based upon how much I put in, since I met the 40Q threshold. Albeit it would be minimal.

So because I went to a different system and continued to work, you're saying that I shouldn't get the same return as the hypothetical guy who just stops working all together yet he contributed the exact same amount that I did, only he still gets "his" of what he paid into it in the end? That's called socialism and you evidentially seem to support it.

If you want the same deal as me add up every dollar you paid into your EXEMPT pension, calculate the SS tax you would have paid on it and send that to the government.

But I don't want the "same deal" as you. I only want my percentage of what I put into it so far. That's what you don't understand. I don't want anything after the day I stopped paying into SS.

You made the deal, and reaped the benefits, be a man and quit crying about it.

What "deal?" Previously you were the one who was crying about not getting any return on your taxes. You're the one crying that you have to continuously pay into SS, yet you will get your FULL allotted and calculated percentage upon reaching a specific age. You're the one evidentially crying and alluding to the fact that you have a sucked retirement and you want everyone else around you to have the same.

Again two things:

1) Bernie lost the election Son, get over it.
2) We're always hiring. Join us. You'll like the "benefits" you sorely keep bringing up.

Simply leaving the SS system shouldn't mean that the government now keeps what I contributed and give it ALL to someone like YOU. Again, that's socialism and I don't support it. However with YOUR "greed," it's perfectly acceptable for you to take someone else's contributed money, while that same person gets nothing in return.

See what you like like when I hold the hypocritical mirror up in front of you?

You're confusion has lumped two different systems into one debate and that's where the flaw lies with your argument.

[71MUSTY]

Not my idea, but some of your elected officials want to.


"Pay SS taxes for nothing?" Ummm, you do get something back when you're in your 60's. What, you didn't know that???

Of course you don't get back 100% of what you paid into silly. You only get a PORTION of what you paid into the system, commensurate with the years that you worked. What, did you actually think that I want "100%" of what I put into it??? Whadya new?

YOU are the one insisting he get his money back not me

Ummm, I underlined the "crux" of the matter of what you said. I already told you that you pay with "pre-tax dollars." So I was in fact correct as you pointed out with your underlined statement. Your "post tax" stuff doesn't concern me, nor is it germane to this conversation. Either way, you should continue to pay into SS because you will earn more in the long run. I paid with the same pre and post tax dollars that you did at one time, so why don't I get my small return of what I already put into it? Nothing more, nothing less.

Your confusion is that you are incorrectly lumping two independent careers with different SS tax laws into one melting pot.

NO WRONG AGAIN. The deal you made does that not me

Whereas the beginning of my working years I paid into SS. It wasn't until later in life that I switched and my SS taxes came to a halt. At that point, everything I paid into it should allow me to collect a small percentage of my paid "fair share." At no point should I get one additional dime from the system after I left it. Again, I've never made that claim, however you seem to have created that myth in your own mind.

It's not on my head it's the deal you made when you took an SS Exempt Job. Blaming my is pure ignorance.

"Special deal"??? No it's just a market of one's money. You get only a portion of what you put into SS, that's understood. Had I left the system to be a homeless person for the next 40 years, I'd still receive benefits based upon how much I put in, since I met the 40Q threshold. Albeit it would be minimal.

So because I went to a different system and continued to work, you're saying that I shouldn't get the same return as the hypothetical guy who just stops working all together yet he contributed the exact same amount that I did, only he still gets "his" of what he paid into it in the end?

No try again, I'm saying it's because you got to build your defined benefit pension SS tax Exempt. Pure fact.

That's called socialism and you evidentially seem to support it.

LOL choice you are whining because your participation is one socialist precludes you from getting handouts from the other, but accuse me of supporting socialism.

But I don't want the "same deal" as you. I only want my percentage of what I put into it so far. That's what you don't understand. I don't want anything after the day I stopped paying into SS.

Again I never said that. You will get exactly the % you deserve, just not the one you want.

What "deal?" Previously you were the one who was crying about not getting any return on your taxes. You're the one crying that you have to continuously pay into SS, yet you will get your FULL allotted and calculated percentage upon reaching a specific age. You're the one evidentially crying and alluding to the fact that you have a sucked retirement and you want everyone else around you to have the same.

Again two things:

1) Bernie lost the election Son, get over it.
2) We're always hiring. Join us. You'll like the "benefits" you sorely keep bringing up.

Simply leaving the SS system shouldn't mean that the government now keeps what I contributed and give it ALL to someone like YOU. Again, that's socialism and I don't support it. However with YOUR "greed," it's perfectly acceptable for you to take someone else's contributed money, while that same person gets nothing in return.

See what you like like when I hold the hypocritical mirror up in front of you?

You're confusion has lumped two different systems into one debate and that's where the flaw lies with your argument.

[/QUOTE]

No my flaw was trying to educate an idiot.

I'm done.

[TrailerparkTrash]

YOU are the one insisting he get his money back not me



NO WRONG AGAIN. The deal you made does that not me




It's not on my head it's the deal you made when you took an SS Exempt Job. Blaming my is pure ignorance.





No try again, I'm saying it's because you got to build your defined benefit pension SS tax Exempt. Pure fact.




LOL choice you are whining because your participation is one socialist precludes you from getting handouts from the other, but accuse me of supporting socialism.




Again I never said that. You will get exactly the % you deserve, just not the one you want.

No my flaw was trying to educate an idiot.

I'm done.[/QUOTE]


I'd agree with you if you were right.

For the 3rd time, we're always hiring.

[eta34]

Socialism. Lol.

[71MUSTY]

No my flaw was trying to educate an idiot.

I'm done.

I'd agree with you if you were right.

For the 3rd time, we're always hiring. [/QUOTE]

Not only do you not know what you talk about you also do not know who you talk about.


Why would I want to work for a government the hires people too dumb to understand what social security exempt means or that what makes the two discussions one is the government contract they signed. Why would I work for any entity that passes over the best and brightest to meet their Affirmative Action Quotas. My parents were both government workers. They too, just like you cried about how unfair life was.

Second, in response to you ridiculous false accusations about me, I planned my carrier in such a way where I would never need a $ from the government for anything. I also planned my carrier in such a way I would never have to go to work and kiss up to people too dumb to understand what social security exempt means nor take orders from them.

So no I don't want your Social Security or even mine, no I never want to have to kiss up to an idiot to get a paycheck and if I had to sit next to someone this ignorant every day I'd go insane.

I paid SS taxes on 100% of my income, never collected, unemployment, disability or paid sick leave, In fact I never collected a dime for any government program. I put kids thru college without student loans, grands or scholorships (Aerospace Engineer, Doctor and a MSW) built a very nice nest egg, and never ever once had to go on the internet crying that Social Security is being unfair to me.

All that after getting kicked out of the third grade.

So go ahead cupcake accuse me of being the Bernie Lover

Hell TTrash your so upset about this I'd give you my SS if I could.

And I never ever once had to go on the internet crying that Social Security is being unfair to me.

I did spend some time once on the internet trying to teach a government employee why his Socialist programs weren't giving him the freebies He thought he deserved.

But it didn't work because all he could do is repeat stupid things, whine, and make false accusations about me.

In the end I let him return to the trailer park and continue his rant about how unfair the world is.

[TrailerparkTrash]

71, You're still here?

[oddjob]

Somewhat related.....On a radio talk show the question was asked....Should Bill Gates get SS checks? Surprisingly the overwhelming vote from callers was yes.