Pensioned LEOs and Social Security

[71MUSTY]

Just to clarify, I'm a female.

I know, sorry you feel I'm being uncivilized. Just getting tired of stating the same thing over and over and over in as many different ways as I can and having nobody understand.

I am not anti Leo, anti female or anti Govt employee. What I am is a very good tax guy who sees what a few thousand people make a year.

Overall Skilled Government employees are on average not underpaid compared to the average private sector employee (at least in California) and have a lot of good benefits on top of that.

Having done the math for 25 years I can tell you your pension program is the best there is (anymore) compared to anything in the private sector. Sure there are people who make big bucks but they are the zebras not the cats.

I happen to believe the logic behind the double dipping rules are fair (and more impotently have been in place since before 99 % of government employees took government jobs.)

I understand that for some people Like Bad Kitty it may take a lot more years before she gets the full benefit.

For the Government Employees who have side jobs or side businesses to get by, I'm proud of you and I understand one of the costs is that you pay into SS but will collect little.

A lot of us in the private sector wish we had enough time off for an side venture.

Here is food for thought. I have a client who worked a low paid 9-5 for 30 years and retired. No pension just SS. Started collecting SS at 65.

At 67 to get buy he started a business. Very successful idea. Made about $800,000. his first year before a big corp stole his idea and put him out of business. That $800,000 was subject to SE tax of 15.3 % plus income taxes.
His total tax liability for that year was a little under $400,000.

Guess what. Even though he paid a huge amount of tax into SS that year he will see absolutely no benefit because his SS benefit is already set.

You think you got a raw deal you should talk to him.

[johnthomas]

I used to worry about retirement, I'm retired now, I don't worry about nuttin.

[wazafuzz]

I am in the same boat as most, I have way over 40 quarters of work, but my benefit is a whopping 279 dollars.
What really sucks though is the Government Pension Offset.
I was married to my wife, a nurse for over 18 years. She died 2 months after I retired from the County. Her hospital had a small 401k but we were counting on her SS. On her statement, it showed she had paid over 100k, with employers paying the same.
Because I have a government pension, I got NOTHING from her SS.
So, tell me how I didn't deserve to at least get her SS. Why was I penalized.
I had to go back to work just to pay the mortgage, which wouldn't have been the case if she hadn't died.

[71MUSTY]

I am in the same boat as most, I have way over 40 quarters of work, but my benefit is a whopping 279 dollars.
What really sucks though is the Government Pension Offset.
I was married to my wife, a nurse for over 18 years. She died 2 months after I retired from the County. Her hospital had a small 401k but we were counting on her SS. On her statement, it showed she had paid over 100k, with employers paying the same.
Because I have a government pension, I got NOTHING from her SS.
So, tell me how I didn't deserve to at least get her SS. Why was I penalized.
I had to go back to work just to pay the mortgage, which wouldn't have been the case if she hadn't died.

That sucks. In your case this is a truly unfortunate and in my opinion incorrect application of the law.

Everyone above complaining because they are not getting what they think they feel they should be entitled too should re-read wazafuzz. The law should be changed to remove this hardship way before we even talk about people's small reductions.




Side note, Back in the 70's when LEO's were really underpaid My Father retired as a Sargent in the CHP after 17 years of service and a 100% work related disability.


His pension paid jointly over his and his spouses lives was $1040. Doesn't sound so bad for the 70's until I tell you that was the yearly amount.

[TrailerparkTrash]

I pay tons of taxes to fund government programs like your job. When do I get my right full share?

"We" also pay taxes out the nose. Some of us that have second jobs still pay into social security for people like YOU when you become old and grey and collect your SS check.

As a small business man I pay taxes into tons of government programs. Disability taxes, unemployment taxes, etc, etc. I have no choice about this. I personally have never collected Unemployment or disability. Should I get back what I paid in?? I guarantee it was more then you paid into Social Security.

40 quarters. The LAW says one gets SS "benefits" upon reaching the 40. So how about giving us our share of the 40, to exactly what a non civil service person would get upon reaching their 40 quarters? Makes sense to me. However govt employees are discriminated against in this aspect. Why? Again, if we pay our "fair share" of 40 quarters, give us what we are entitled to receive. Why discriminate us for being civil servants with another pension? By the way, my government pension requires me to pay a share into my retirement, just like anyone in the private sector with a 401k. ...You have one of those, ...don't you????

You mentioned earlier that we have "government jobs" where YOUR tax dollars pay for our salaries etc... etc... blah blah blah... Well guess what? Our tax dollars also pay for ourselves and everything else that benefits you as well! So don't give us that krap about your tax dollars pay our salaries. Again, civil servants pay taxes too.

Second, cops, firefighters, military, courts, county hospital doctors and nurses etc...etc.... are Government entities that serve the public to maintain order, safety and security. These entities are "NOT for profit" organizations, so who the hell else is going to pay for those NEEDED services other than [B][U]U.S. tax payers ???

Your argument about you not getting any return for your tax dollars is totally bogus and at best, very juvenile. For starters, YOU get police, fire, medical (etc...) PROTECTION B-E-N-F-I-T-S! Nor do you get sent a bill when you call and scream into the phone that you need the fire department because your van is on fire. If you don't know what "protection" I'm talking about, then go dial 911 and ask for help. Then watch YOUR tax dollars at work son! I thought you were a "business man." You should know better.

Finally, It sounds like your miserable with your own choice of career path you took. I read much envy and despising of a civil servant's career benefits in your posts. We can't help it if you have a sucked job and are obviously jealous that your benefits must suck when compared to ours. We civil servants planned our career choices out. ...Didn't you?

Why should you get money back from a Government programs just because you paid into them if I don't. Where is my right full share

Are you special?

But YOU do indeed get your FULL SS benefits if you pay into the system ...and are NOT a civil servant. So why are your complaining? Many of us civil servants are REQUIRD BY LAW to pay into SS with our second jobs or did so already early in life before a career change from the private sector. So if YOU get the SS benefit return, why shouldn't we if we paid into the same system that you did and we met the government set requirement (40-quarters) as well? (I'm not talking about one that hasn't met his/her 40 quarters. I'm talking about those of us that have).

You mentioned that you put in "200 quarters." So where exactly is the line of demarcation of when someone should receive their SS benefits? Is it at 199? 200? 300? 150? Which is it now in YOUR opinion? Here's a hint for you: The government (i.e the LAW) through congress, has long determined that it's "40 quarters!" Now what? So your opinion on that specific matter is really moot.

By the way those "6 figure $aleries in the private sector" are mostly a lie government employees use to justify their Union Benefits.

Well we're always hiring. Did you ever fill out that employment application for that civil/public service linked job, in order to receive those same benefits you sorely despise us of having????

Frankly, I've seen many that just couldn't pass backgrounds and/or the civil service tests themselves. ...So they whine.

[nstoolman1]

Look here, Https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/wep-chart.html

There's an online calculator to figure it out exactly, if you pay in more than 30 years you get it all

^^^^^^ Winner

If you have 30 "QUALIFYING" years paid in you will not be dinged.
Check out the SS website.

Quarters have nothing to do with it. The 40 quarters only means you are eligible to receive Medicare when you retire.

[TrailerparkTrash]

^^^^^^ Winner

If you have 30 "QUALIFYING" years paid in you will not be dinged.
Check out the SS website.

Quarters have nothing to do with it. The 40 quarters only means you are eligible to receive Medicare when you retire.

I get a letter every year from the SS Admin that says otherwise. I will get a check for a specific dollar amount when I reach a particular age because I've reached my "40." If I contribute more money into SS as a result of working a job that pays into it, obviously then I'd get a little more when I reached a specific age. But I will get money, no matter how small of a dollar amount it will be.

[mej16489]

I get a letter every year from the SS Admin that says otherwise. I will get a check for a specific dollar amount when I reach a particular age because I've reached my "40." If I contribute more money into SS as a result of working a job that pays into it, obviously then I'd get a little more when I reached a specific age. But I will get money, no matter how small of a dollar amount it will be.

There should be a footnote on there indicating something to the effect of, 'this calculation is presuming that you will continue to contribute the same amount until retirement age.'

[TrailerparkTrash]

There should be a footnote on there indicating something to the effect of, 'this calculation is presuming that you will continue to contribute the same amount until retirement age.'

No footnote on mine.

Additionaly, my primary retirement "entity" has also calculated a rough estimate of what my SS payout will be upon specific age(s).

Now what?

[nstoolman1]

After 40 quarters you do get "benefits". It is called Medical/Medicare. Your retirement amount is based on how much you contribute. If you have 30 qualifying years of contributions you will not get dinged with WEP. Mine says what I will get at 62, 65,70. If I did not have the 30 years( and I do) I would be penalized x percent for each year less than 30. Everyone needs to go to the SSA website and read up and learn. To not do so is doing yourselves a disservice.

[71MUSTY]

"We" also pay taxes out the nose. Some of us that have second jobs still pay into social security for people like YOU when you become old and grey and collect your SS check.

Aside from every tax you pay which I also pay I have to also pay Social Security tax on ALL my income including my payments into my retirement savings accounts
But you totally miss the point. YOU GET to pay into you Retirement program tax free. Most people on the outside don't have a retirement unless they fund it themselves with money they paid Social Security TAXES on.

You receive a guaranteed payout from your pension based on the numbers of years you worked and your highest Quarterly earnings.Regardless of how much you paid in.

We only get the money we paid in (After paying Social Security Taxes) plus any earnings we were able to make


40 quarters. The LAW says one gets SS "benefits" upon reaching the 40. So how about giving us our share of the 40, to exactly what a non civil service person would get upon reaching their 40 quarters? Makes sense to me. However govt employees are discriminated against in this aspect. Why? Again, if we pay our "fair share" of 40 quarters, give us what we are entitled to receive. Why discriminate us for being civil servants with another pension? By the way, my government pension requires me to pay a share into my retirement, just like anyone in the private sector with a 401k. ...You have one of those, ...don't you????

No we don't get a 401K just for showing up, and if we self fund one we only get our own money PLus growth, not some guaranteed payout like you based on years of service.

You mentioned earlier that we have "government jobs" where YOUR tax dollars pay for our salaries etc... etc... blah blah blah... Well guess what? Our tax dollars also pay for ourselves and everything else that benefits you as well! So don't give us that krap about your tax dollars pay our salaries. Again, civil servants pay taxes too.

Give me a break, you still don't even grasp we pay more taxes then you do and do not receive Defined Benefit Pensions.

Second, cops, firefighters, military, courts, county hospital doctors and nurses etc...etc.... are Government entities that serve the public to maintain order, safety and security. These entities are "NOT for profit" organizations, so who the hell else is going to pay for those NEEDED services other than [U]U.S. tax payers ???
Never said any such thing Putting words in my mouth doesn't reduce your lack of understanding
Your argument about you not getting any return for your tax dollars is totally bogus and at best, very juvenile. For starters, YOU get police, fire, medical (etc...) PROTECTION B-E-N-F-I-T-S! Nor do you get sent a bill when you call and scream into the phone that you need the fire department because your van is on fire. If you don't know what "protection" I'm talking about, then go dial 911 and ask for help. Then watch YOUR tax dollars at work son! I thought you were a "business man." You should know better.

Never said any such thing Putting words in my mouth doesn't reduce your lack of understanding So is Social Security Administration what exactly is your point? Your rules are fair but theirs are unfair? Same Government buddy. There rules not mine, I just try to help you understand them.


Finally, It sounds like your miserable with your own choice of career path you took. I read much envy and despising of a civil servant's career benefits in your posts. We can't help it if you have a sucked job and are obviously jealous that your benefits must suck when compared to ours. We civil servants planned our career choices out. ...Didn't you? [/COLOR]

Never said any such thing Putting words in my mouth doesn't reduce your lack of understanding. Funny for all that planning you don't even understand what you have. Your the one whining and your the one angry, what does that tell you?

But YOU do indeed get your FULL SS benefits if you pay into the system ...and are NOT a civil servant. So why are your complaining? Many of us civil servants are REQUIRD BY LAW to pay into SS with our second jobs or did so already early in life before a career change from the private sector. So if YOU get the SS benefit return, why shouldn't we if we paid into the same system that you did and we met the government set requirement (40-quarters) as well? (I'm not talking about one that hasn't met his/her 40 quarters. I'm talking about those of us that have).

I'm not the one complaining here you are.(That's projection) I trying to help you understand the system. Not my fault you don't

You mentioned that you put in "200 quarters." So where exactly is the line of demarcation of when someone should receive their SS benefits? Is it at 199? 200? 300? 150? Which is it now in YOUR opinion? Here's a hint for you: The government (i.e the LAW) through congress, has long determined that it's "40 quarters!" Now what? So your opinion on that specific matter is really moot. [/COLOR]

I didn't make the rules I just paid what I paid. The law adjust your SS benefit to reflect the "Better " deal you planned. But after your great planning you now think it's unfair. It's the carrier you planned and you followed your plan, Now at the last minute you cry the plan is unfair

Well we're always hiring. Did you ever fill out that employment application for that civil/public service linked job, in order to receive those same benefits you sorely despise us of having????

Frankly, I've seen many that just couldn't pass backgrounds and/or the civil service tests themselves. ...So they whine.

Once again you get it backwards, you are whining the law is unfair not me.

But nice try, you can't make a good argument so you imply I am somehow unworthy.

Snowflake Red doesn't make your misstatements any more correct.
Get in touch with me again when you have a clue about what you are talking about.

[yobless]

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v68n2/v68n2p21.html

"The regular Social Security benefit computation formula is weighted to provide a higher replacement of earnings for workers with low earnings. Most employment and self-employment in the United States is covered by Social Security. Workers and their employers pay taxes up to an annual maximum amount, and the earnings are creditable for Social Security purposes. Before the WEP was enacted, individuals who had worked mainly in employment not covered by Social Security had their benefits computed as if they were long term low-wage earners. The WEP prevents this unintended windfall for workers who receive a pension from a job where they did not pay Social Security taxes, but who benefited from provisions aimed at low lifetime earners."

Pretty cut and dry concerning the "windfall offset."

And if you have 30 YOC's you'll be able to collect your non covered pension and your SS retirement benefits without a problem.

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0300605362

[TrailerparkTrash]

Once again you get it backwards, you are whining the law is unfair not me.

But nice try, you can't make a good argument so you imply I am somehow unworthy.

Snowflake Red doesn't make your misstatements any more correct.
Get in touch with me again when you have a clue about what you are talking about.

Triggered.

I accept your white flag of surrender as you've clearly just demonstrated your inability to refute.

'Nuff said.

[71MUSTY]

Triggered.

I accept your white flag of surrender as you've clearly just demonstrated your inability to refute.

'Nuff said.

I don't give me anything to refute, just a bunch of anger and false statements.

You are becoming the poster child for why people think so poorly of Public Servants

Here is the heart of the matter in your own words.

We civil servants planned our career choices out.

Now you are complaining your plan is unfair. But it's your plan! Either you don't understand your own plan or your just a whiner.

BooHooHoo Poor public servant gets exactly what he planned. HOW UNFAIR IS THAT.

But that's OK keep telling your self your Whining is winning.

[GM4spd]

Interestingly, that was the trade-off you all made when you agreed to be Exempt from Social Security in exchange for that great Government pension. Now you want to have your cake and eat it too. Don't get me wrong I do understand but Social Security was never intended to support people who already have a great Government Pension.

Now consider this. Those of us who did not/don't work for the Government have to pay Social Security Tax on every dime of wages we make every day of our lives.

Why should you be entitled to the same Social Security benefit I am when you were able to exclude most of your income from Social Security Tax.

I will agree to give you the same social security benefit as me when you agree I get the same pension as you.

Exactly. I paid into SSI from 1967-2014. When I retired from a private
sector job,my employer DEDUCTED from my pension--- a dollar amount
that was 1/2 of the benefit I receive from Social Security,that's because every dollar that I contributed my employer also had to pay into,so they want
their money. People that didn't put anything into SS ,shouldn't be entitled to it.